Ancient Buddhas

No holds barred discussion on the Buddhadharma. Argue about rebirth, karma, commentarial interpretations etc. Be nice to each other.

Re: Ancient Buddhas

Postby Aemilius » Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:33 pm

theanarchist wrote:
Aemilius wrote: Yet again, what I am saying is: We can consider that the alaya-consciousness produces the perceived world. ..



Nope, it doesn't.

That may be true for the after death bardo states where the mind has no physical basis where the whole world it experiences is basically hallucinated, but it is definitely not true for a being incarnated on earth, into the human realm.


You would do well to become acquainted with Yogachara and Chittamatra buddhism, which do not allow independent existence for matter.

Reality splits into parallel streams of existence, according to the the buddhist view. Thus there are simultaneously the six realms and their subrealms, where beings experience quite different realities. In god realms there are beings who live for 10 000 years, 100 000 years or for kalpas. At the same time there is the human realm, where many people take it for granted that nothing like Devas/gods actually exist. Both realms (humans and devas) exist as physical realities, in buddhism. You can find this for example in the Abhidharma.
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Re: Ancient Buddhas

Postby theanarchist » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:10 pm

Aemilius wrote:
Reality splits into parallel streams of existence, according to the the buddhist view. Thus there are simultaneously the six realms and their subrealms, where beings experience quite different realities. In god realms there are beings who live for 10 000 years, 100 000 years or for kalpas. .



So beings in the god realms can live for 100000 years. Fine. But this has nothing to do with the fact that it is not possible for human beings on earth.


I have read somewhere that the god realm is not a physical realm with matter and laws of physics like ours.
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Re: Ancient Buddhas

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:28 pm

Aemilius wrote: Reality splits into parallel streams of existence, according to the the buddhist view.

Please cite this.
Aemilius wrote: Both realms (humans and devas) exist as physical realities, in buddhism.

Please explain what you mean by, "exist as physical realities".
Do you mean inherently arising?
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Re: Ancient Buddhas

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:32 pm

Aemilius wrote:You would do well to become acquainted with Yogachara and Chittamatra buddhism, which do not allow independent existence for matter....


....Both realms (humans and devas) exist as physical realities, in buddhism.


This sounds a bit contradictory :thinking:
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Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.
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Re: Ancient Buddhas

Postby Aemilius » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:46 pm

theanarchist wrote:
Aemilius wrote:
Reality splits into parallel streams of existence, according to the the buddhist view. Thus there are simultaneously the six realms and their subrealms, where beings experience quite different realities. In god realms there are beings who live for 10 000 years, 100 000 years or for kalpas. .



So beings in the god realms can live for 100000 years. Fine. But this has nothing to do with the fact that it is not possible for human beings on earth.


I have read somewhere that the god realm is not a physical realm with matter and laws of physics like ours.


In the Abhidharmakosha of Vasubandhu it is clearly said that the god realm of Rupa-loka is material in the sense that the gods have form bodies or bodies of matter. The term Rupa can also be translated as matter, though it is often translated as form. Rupa-loka is usually called Form realm.
It is a fairly common misunderstanding that gods are not material, that they are ethereal or the like... I have discussed this topic of the bodies of Devas with a notable Kagyu Rimpoche sometime in 1990's. He stressed that they are not immaterial or etheral, but they are exactly like us!

In the teaching of emptiness, especially in the teaching of 18 or 20 emptinesses, there is the emptiness of nature, ie that nature is empty of being a nature.
This can be understood to mean that natural laws have no independent existence, that natural laws can be different in different realms. I.e. that the outer reality of natural laws is empty of absolute & indepedent natural laws. This is an amazing thought. Where does it leave us?
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Re: Ancient Buddhas

Postby Aemilius » Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:10 pm

PadmaVonSamba wrote:
Aemilius wrote: Reality splits into parallel streams of existence, according to the the buddhist view.

Please cite this.
Aemilius wrote: Both realms (humans and devas) exist as physical realities, in buddhism.

Please explain what you mean by, "exist as physical realities".
Do you mean inherently arising?


It means that in bardo, or antarabhava, You have a choice between three or four dhatus: 1. Realm of sense desires, 2. Form realm, 3.Formless realm, and 4. Nirvanadhatu. (The teaching of Four Dhatus is mentioned in Nagarjuna's Mulamadhyamaka Karika). This means that we part ways with beings who are born in a different realm than we. In this sense reality splits into parallel streams of existence.
Bardo Thödol says that we will see the beings who are going to be reborn in a similar realm (with us).
The four dhatus have numerous subrealms: the levels of four dhyanas, four formless dhyanas, different pure realms, realms of suddhavasa, etc...

Physical reality means the realms of Rupadhatu and Kamadhatu.
Maybe You could include the formless realms in it too? Is infinite space a physical reality?
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