Can you be care free?

No holds barred discussion on the Buddhadharma. Argue about rebirth, karma, commentarial interpretations etc. Be nice to each other.

Re: Can you be care free?

Postby Qing Tian » Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:21 am

Recognising need + attending to need = caring.

Caring relieves the suffering of another.
Caring does not add suffering to oneself.

For those who do not dwell on caring,
the tides rise,
and the tides fall.
“Not till your thoughts cease all their branching here and there, not till you abandon all thoughts of seeking for something, not till your mind is motionless as wood or stone, will you be on the right road to the Gate.”
User avatar
Qing Tian
 
Posts: 167
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:18 pm

Re: Can you be care free?

Postby oushi » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:07 am

I was unsure if being carefree is a way "in" or rather a result of practice. I have very positive experiences from working with it, but it was not apparent to me, what is the depth of it. While investigating the subject, I came across Ataraxia, a term found in ancient Greek philosophy. It is a result of "freedom from worry" applied by Pyrrho (inter alia). It was based on the fact that any attempt to determine a fixed character for thing that inherently lack any fixed character, is destined to fail. There are more similarities with Dharma, and some are really striking. Pyrrhos journey to India is also worth mentioning.

"By suspending judgment, by confining oneself to phenomena or objects as they appear, and by asserting nothing definite as to how they really are, one can escape the perplexities of life and attain an imperturbable peace of mind."

An article worth reading:
http://www.iep.utm.edu/pyrrho/
User avatar
oushi
 
Posts: 1362
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:18 am
Location: Chrząszczyrzewoszyce

Re: Can you be care free?

Postby qwerty13 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:08 pm

i think there is two ways of being carefree:
1. "Negative" carefreeness
This means that you simply have no sense of responsibility in your actions. You do what ever you do, not caring/woring about consequences and how you might affect others. You refuse take resposibilty from consequences.

2."Positive" carefreeness
You have sense of responsibilty in your actions. This means that you have strong sense that YOU affect others and that actions have consequences. You refrain from actions that you know to be bad. However, you are not attaching yourself neuroticly
in "goodness"or in how things in the end go. You know what you have to do and you go through possibilities of what might happen. You choose the action you feel most appropriate but after that you accept the possibility that things might still go wrong.
In short, you know what you have to do and choose to do it (sense of responsibility) but after that you let the chips fall where ever they may( this is where i see that the"freedom of worry" comes into play).

So in my opinion you can be (and you should be) carefree. You just have to know the basic responsibility which is that you want to do what YOU honestly feel best thing to do.If you fail or something bad happens at least you tried your best.
Knowing that you are allowed to fail thousand plus one time and not feeling quilt for it is the essence of being carefree.

Dont know if this makes any sense but this is how i see it after thinking about it.
People love emotional confusion. Just look at the film posters in front of the cinema: nothing but emotional confusion on their faces. Buddha-dharma means not putting yourself at the mercy of emotional confusion. In the world, on the other hand, a big fuss is made over nothing.

-Kodo Sawaki
User avatar
qwerty13
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:41 pm
Location: Finland, Europe, Earth

Re: Can you be care free?

Postby oushi » Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:21 am

Yes, thank you for another insightful post.
User avatar
oushi
 
Posts: 1362
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:18 am
Location: Chrząszczyrzewoszyce

Re: Can you be care free?

Postby oushi » Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:25 pm

"It's actually fine to be happy, carefree. The more carefree you are from deep within, the better your practice is. Carefree means being wide open from within, not constricted. Carefree doesn’t mean careless, that you are sloppy or that you don’t care about others. It’s not like you don’t have compassion or are unfriendly. Carefree is being really simple, from the inside.
[..]
Be aware of your own mind. Let it be undisturbed and free of confusion, because only then can you be of help to others. Otherwise you just remain confused, confusing yourself, and there’s no way to really be of help to anyone else. Don’t get too overexcited about this, either. Just relax, sit upright, and be open — wide open and carefree. The view in the Great Perfection, is to be totally open and carefree.
[..]
Be free of hope and fear. Train in a carefree way. In order to know really how to train, we need to remind ourselves to be carefree and at ease — not spaced out or dull and withdrawn, but simply at ease."
- Tsoknyi Rinpoche
User avatar
oushi
 
Posts: 1362
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:18 am
Location: Chrząszczyrzewoszyce

Re: Can you be care free?

Postby qwerty13 » Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:24 pm

oushi wrote:
[..]
Be aware of your own mind. Let it be undisturbed and free of confusion, because only then can you be of help to others. Otherwise you just remain confused, confusing yourself, and there’s no way to really be of help to anyone else. Don’t get too overexcited about this, either. Just relax, sit upright, and be open — wide open and carefree. The view in the Great Perfection, is to be totally open and carefree.
[..]
Be free of hope and fear. Train in a carefree way. In order to know really how to train, we need to remind ourselves to be carefree and at ease — not spaced out or dull and withdrawn, but simply at ease."
- Tsoknyi Rinpoche


Nailed it bro, Here is short yet POWERFUL dharma talk by Kalu Rinpoche where he is touching same subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-AQU0FVhQ0

"Please be happy, please be relaxed,don`t be so Buddhist!"
People love emotional confusion. Just look at the film posters in front of the cinema: nothing but emotional confusion on their faces. Buddha-dharma means not putting yourself at the mercy of emotional confusion. In the world, on the other hand, a big fuss is made over nothing.

-Kodo Sawaki
User avatar
qwerty13
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:41 pm
Location: Finland, Europe, Earth

Re: Can you be care free?

Postby oushi » Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:29 pm

Great one. I love direct speech, openness and honesty. :smile:
It is enough that people are cheating themselves.
Carefree, relaxed. Not becoming anything, not going anywhere, not wanting anything and not believing in anything. Is there a greater freedom?
User avatar
oushi
 
Posts: 1362
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:18 am
Location: Chrząszczyrzewoszyce

Re: Can you be care free?

Postby oushi » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:02 pm

Perfection of Wisdom:
Subhuti: Deep, O Lord, is perfect wisdom. Certainly as a great enterprise
it has been set up.
The Lord: So it is, Subhuti. For all-knowledge has been entrusted to it,
and so has the level of a Pratyekabuddha and the level of all the Disciples. An
anointed king, a Kshatriya, who feels strong and secure in his kingdom, entrusts
all his business concerning his kingly office, and the city and the kingdom to his
minister, and he himself has few cares and his burden is light. Just so, whatever
dharmas of Buddhas, Pratyekabuddhas, or Disciples there may be, they are all
entrusted to the perfection of wisdom. It is the perfection of wisdom which in
them does the work. It is in this manner that perfect wisdom has set up for a
great enterprise, i.e. so that one should not take hold of form, etc., nor settle
down in it. And as for the skandhas, so also for the fruits of the holy life, from
the fruit of a Streamwinner to the state of all-knowledge.
Subhuti: In what way has perfect wisdom been set up so that one should
not take hold of the state of all-knowledge, nor settle down in it? [282]
The Lord: Do you view Arhatship as a real dharma which you could take
hold of, or settle down it?
Subhuti: No, Lord!
The Lord: So it is, Subhuti. I also do not view Tathagatahood as real, and
therefore I do not take hold of it, do not settle down in it. For that reason allknowledge
also is a state in which one neither takes hold of anything, nor settles
down in anything.
Subhuti: Bodhisattvas who have but newly set out in the vehicle, and
whose wholesome roots are but small, must beware that they not tremble when
they hear this exposition. On the other hand, Bodhisattvas will, on hearing this
deep perfection of wisdom, firmly believe in it if they are suitable for
Buddhahood, have fulfilled their duties under the Jinas of the past, and have
planted wholesome roots for a long time.
The Lord: So it is, Subhuti.
User avatar
oushi
 
Posts: 1362
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:18 am
Location: Chrząszczyrzewoszyce

Re: Can you be care free?

Postby muni » Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:19 am

Unbiased love is the care of free nature.
muni
 
Posts: 2735
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Can you be care free?

Postby oushi » Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:02 am

Unbiased love is an appearance of free nature ( ),
and care is an appearance of unbiased love (( )).
Then thoughts and feelings are appearances of care ((( ))).

S(u(f(f( )e)r)i)n)g
User avatar
oushi
 
Posts: 1362
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:18 am
Location: Chrząszczyrzewoszyce

Re: Can you be care free?

Postby muni » Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:32 am

oushi wrote:Unbiased love is an appearance of free nature ( ),
and care is an appearance of unbiased love (( )).
Then thoughts and feelings are appearances of care ((( ))).

S(u(f(f( )e)r)i)n)g


Caring as conditioned intention is suffering by subject-object or just grasping-suffering.

As far as words can express in this way; unbiased love seen as aspect of free nature, is not abiding anywhere and so free from any grasping to self or other.

Isn't awaken nature always spontaneous caring without ever an exhaustion?
'Its like its own simple breathing'. ( metaphor.)


PS Just for fun. About our misunderstanding of Bodhichitta Dzongsar Rinpoche said once something like: then we need to go to a Psy and what we are going to say? I am suffering from practicing Bodhichitta?

Care free: hang a dry fish on the neck instead of that ( habitual) tie.

:anjali:
muni
 
Posts: 2735
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Can you be care free?

Postby oushi » Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:59 am

As far as words can express in this way; unbiased love seen as aspect of free nature, is not abiding anywhere and so free from any grasping to self or other

I understand abiding, as being graspable. Since it is ungraspable, it is unseen by anyone, thus calling it "love", which is graspable, is misleading.
muni wrote:Isn't awaken nature always spontaneous caring without ever an exhaustion?
'Its like its own simple breathing'. ( metaphor.)

I will say no, because there is no need to care for something that is already perfect. This is not a technical perfection, but rather an extinction of dissatisfaction caused by intellect. If out mind, using its learned norms, finds a flaw, it cares to fix it. This does not occur for awakened nature. Moreover, carrying implies an agent.
muni wrote:Care free: hang a dry fish on the neck instead of that ( habitual) tie.

Such a test would always fail, because even if you do it, it will mean that you care to be carefree. As far as I know, care cannot be destroyed, it can only be liberated.

The more I contemplate it, the clearer I see that it is a very subtle topic. It goes out of the logical area, into the sphere of attitude and intention. Every statement seem to be rough, inaccurate and misleading.
User avatar
oushi
 
Posts: 1362
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:18 am
Location: Chrząszczyrzewoszyce

Re: Can you be care free?

Postby muni » Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:22 am

oushi wrote: Every statement seem to be rough, inaccurate and misleading.


When there is mind percieving statement. Every word can mislead, not because of the word, but because of the grasping.

When carrying can mislead as it should include an agent, then no need to care about word care. Lol.
muni
 
Posts: 2735
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Can you be care free?

Postby oushi » Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:04 am

muni wrote:When there is mind percieving statement. Every word can mislead, not because of the word, but because of the grasping.

Yes, information carried by word is irrelevant as long as it does not trigger care. Without care, there is not grasping, there simply is no point in it. If you care, you will grasp, even after liberation.
Care is fear for thing that will come. Connected with the idea that we can control phenomena, creates an opening for doubt and guilt. "Did I do it right?", "I could have done it better!". Right, and wrong, good and bad... duality creeps in creating an axis which is self.
Since it is impossible to find a perfect division, there is no point in trying to justify anything. There is no logical solution to the problem, and it all comes down to attitude. This way, without the needing to have a reasonable explanation, we can approach reality as perfect, and because it is not rooted in reason, it is perfect as long as we treat it as perfect.

"The pathless path
is the path always under our feet
and since that path is always beneath us,
if we miss it, how stupid!"

"This is It!" as long as we accept it as It. Attitude is the only factor involved. Thus being carefree is rooted in the Path.

Reality is Samsara if we see it as such. Reality is Nirvana if we see it as such.
Content remains the same, but attitude changes.
User avatar
oushi
 
Posts: 1362
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:18 am
Location: Chrząszczyrzewoszyce

Re: Can you be care free?

Postby muni » Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:23 am

oushi wrote:Yes, information carried by word is irrelevant as long as it does not trigger care. Without care, there is not grasping, there simply is no point in it. If you care, you will grasp, even after liberation.
Care is fear for thing that will come. Connected with the idea that we can control phenomena, creates an opening for doubt and guilt. "Did I do it right?", "I could have done it better!". Right, and wrong, good and bad... duality creeps in creating an axis which is self.
Since it is impossible to find a perfect division, there is no point in trying to justify anything. There is no logical solution to the problem, and it all comes down to attitude. This way, without the needing to have a reasonable explanation, we can approach reality as perfect, and because it is not rooted in reason, it is perfect as long as we treat it as perfect.

"The pathless path
is the path always under our feet
and since that path is always beneath us,
if we miss it, how stupid!"

"This is It!" as long as we accept it as It. Attitude is the only factor involved. Thus being carefree is rooted in the Path.

Reality is Samsara if we see it as such. Reality is Nirvana if we see it as such.
Content remains the same, but attitude changes.



Ah what, you are right! I mean wrong, all what you say is just wrong.

Wrong, where is wrong?

Right.

( http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Four_reliances )
muni
 
Posts: 2735
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Can you be care free?

Postby oushi » Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:31 am

muni wrote:Ah what, you are right! I mean wrong, all what you say is just wrong.

Wrong, where is wrong?

Right.

I was reading you reply while listening to "Juno Reactor". When I finished reading, I heard "God is God". I cannot explain it yet, but somehow it felt perfectly accurate...

"But once we see without rejecting or affirming, there is freedom."
:idea:
User avatar
oushi
 
Posts: 1362
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:18 am
Location: Chrząszczyrzewoszyce

Re: Can you be care free?

Postby KonchokZoepa » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:41 pm

maybe someone interested is interested in Tsoknyi Rinpoches book called Carefee Dignity. ive only read the first few pages and it seems to be about dzogchen.
KonchokZoepa
 
Posts: 1267
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:50 pm

Re: Can you be care free?

Postby oushi » Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:18 pm

Yes, it is about Dzogchen, with small section dedicated to being carefree. Very good book, but it doesn't go deep into the subject of care.
User avatar
oushi
 
Posts: 1362
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:18 am
Location: Chrząszczyrzewoszyce

Re: Can you be care free?

Postby muni » Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:11 am

Care-care free. There are Paramitas. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J0__3MlQ3w

As long as there is that conceptual world with its so's and so's, there are definitions which turn in statements, arguments, discussions. Nondual nature ( no agent who find it) is the aswer while striving to find clarity throught concepts maintains the idea of being able to describe.
muni
 
Posts: 2735
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Can you be care free?

Postby oushi » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:39 am

muni wrote:As long as there is that conceptual world with its so's and so's, there are definitions which turn in statements, arguments, discussions. Nondual nature ( no agent who find it) is the aswer while striving to find clarity throught concepts maintains the idea of being able to describe.

I cannot agree, as I see nothing wrong with statements, arguments, or discussions. They are not the answer, but also not an obstacle for clarity to arise. For me, the greatest clarity arose from a mind boiling with concepts, and weird statements. It was always like that. Content is not a factor, because clarity cannot be disturbed. The difference comes from the way we align our attitude. If we align it with thinking, it will be driven by thinking. If we align it with clarity, it will be at peace. Now, although clarity can be found through concepts, it cannot be sustained by them, because they case. They bring us somewhere, and then we slide down. We can repeat it, and it will bring us back "uphill". It will, until meaning is habituated (after an hour, day, maybe a week). Then it will become just a sound, unchanging our attitude. And here lies the answer, because why care to go uphill to any specific state? Let the mind slide down effortlessly, because down there lies the bliss of carefree.
User avatar
oushi
 
Posts: 1362
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:18 am
Location: Chrząszczyrzewoszyce

PreviousNext

Return to Open Dharma

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Asbestos Buddha, CrawfordHollow, Norwegian, theanarchist, Thrasymachus, yan kong and 17 guests

>