On Aro gTér

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Re: On Aro gTér

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:14 pm

Yudron wrote:Guru Yoga.

Yudron wrote:Better Business Bureau.

IMHO these are two interpretations of "lineage" that should not be conflated. The latter is a resume for prospective students who should be Calling The Lama From Afar.

The former is a far more radical idea which is unique to Vajrayana. It denotes that the nirmanakaya of the guru is truly plugged into the power grid of the universe.

This is why the core of the path of transformation is guru, not renunciation.
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Re: On Aro gTér

Postby lobster » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:13 pm

Rather than worrying about fashion, decided to do their meditation course . . .
Now on week 2, so far I have no fault with it. If they demand wearing bedsheets, saris or similar, then my sartorial attachments may be tested . . . dharma first, fancy dress optional . . .
http://aromeditation.org/
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Re: On Aro gTér

Postby Yudron » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:43 pm

Karma Dondrup Tashi wrote:
Yudron wrote:Guru Yoga.

Yudron wrote:Better Business Bureau.

IMHO these are two interpretations of "lineage" that should not be conflated. The latter is a resume for prospective students who should be Calling The Lama From Afar.

The former is a far more radical idea which is unique to Vajrayana. It denotes that the nirmanakaya of the guru is truly plugged into the power grid of the universe.

This is why the core of the path of transformation is guru, not renunciation.


I don't know what you mean by "the latter is a resume for prospective students who should be Calling the Lama from Afar."
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Re: On Aro gTér

Postby byamspa » Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:00 pm

lobster wrote:Rather than worrying about fashion, decided to do their meditation course . . .
Now on week 2, so far I have no fault with it. If they demand wearing bedsheets, saris or similar, then my sartorial attachments may be tested . . . dharma first, fancy dress optional . . .
http://aromeditation.org/


LOL, good approach imo, in the vein of take what is useful and don't worry about the rest.

My sangha likes to dress up a bit too, but we're not near as fancy as the aro folks, they are definitely rockin' the colors and belts and pretty satin ribbons. I view it all as Spock would with one raised eyebrow, 'Fascinating'.
Phenomenon, vast as space, dharmata is your base, arising and falling like ocean tide cycles, why do i cling to your illusion of unceasing changlessness?
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Re: On Aro gTér

Postby Kunga » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:36 am

The Aro sangha come out to Boudha on group pilgrimage from time to time and, I must say, they seem very normal, cheerful, kind and relaxed people. This is in contradistinction to many of the 'regular' dharma folk, belonging to some of the big lineages, who either seem to be hyper-pious, clutching their malas with adamantine claws, pursed lips and faraway eyes as they strut meaningfully around the stupa, avoiding the poor and other worldly distractions; or armchair types who have discussions in coffee houses about what empowerments they've received, what amazing spiritual experiences and teachers they have and what restricted texts they possess.

Give me an Aro person any day.
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Re: On Aro gTér

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:39 am

So, what you are saying, is that an organisation should be judged by the degree to which it's members conform to your personal list of positive personality attributes?
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: On Aro gTér

Postby lobster » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:27 pm

. . . well the good aro meditation advice continues . . .

Whatever happens in meditation—whether good or bad, ordinary or peculiar—simply experience it. Attempting to ascertain meaning is counter-productive. Do not judge thoughts, or the quality of meditation. Adopt this attitude: During meditation there are no profound or good thoughts. There are no unworthy or bad thoughts. There are no blissful or good meditation sessions. There are no boring, grumpy, miserable or bad meditation sessions. Allow good experiences to pass as they will. Allow bad experiences to persist as they will. Observe clearly the neutral experiences which you might prefer to ignore as uninteresting.

They are also informing me of classes, one to ones and no doubt will try selling books and fashion Accessories any day . . . I am thinking of something that hints at 'meditative exotica with a hint of carefree Zen' - perhaps in purple . . . or maybe I will sit this one out . . . :popcorn:
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Re: On Aro gTér

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:40 pm

Yudron wrote:I don't know what you mean by "the latter is a resume for prospective students who should be Calling the Lama from Afar."

My apologies, I just saw your post now.

I meant that one of the functions of "lineage", in the sense of "better business bureau", is to assist the prospective practitioner in seeking the guru, learning about the guru, and verifying the guru's credentials.
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Re: On Aro gTér

Postby Yudron » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:30 pm

Karma Dondrup Tashi wrote:
Yudron wrote:I don't know what you mean by "the latter is a resume for prospective students who should be Calling the Lama from Afar."

My apologies, I just saw your post now.

I meant that one of the functions of "lineage", in the sense of "better business bureau", is to assist the prospective practitioner in seeking the guru, learning about the guru, and verifying the guru's credentials.


Agreed.

In the Nyingma there is not really any central authority, so we are dependent on the stamp of approval of a lama for his/her student to teach. If the teacher is dead, we rely on other lineage lamas. In the case of a terma tradition, one is typically asked to start writing them down and propagating them by a great respected older lama. I don't know who that would be these days, perhaps Dodrupchen, Taklung Tsetrul Rinpoche, Yangthang Tulku Rinpoche, or in the younger generation, Rabjam Rinpoche or Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche. That kind of level.

We have plenty of terma traditions that have a good track record.
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Re: On Aro gTér

Postby ngodrup » Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:47 am

gregkavarnos wrote:So, what you are saying, is that an organisation should be judged by the degree to which it's members conform to your personal list of positive personality attributes?


Well, you know, it wasn't only Jesus who is purported to have said:
"By their fruits you shall know them." it either works or it doesn't.
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Re: On Aro gTér

Postby byamspa » Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:17 am

:popcorn:
Phenomenon, vast as space, dharmata is your base, arising and falling like ocean tide cycles, why do i cling to your illusion of unceasing changlessness?
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Re: On Aro gTér

Postby Sherab Dorje » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:45 am

ngodrup wrote:Well, you know, it wasn't only Jesus who is purported to have said:
"By their fruits you shall know them." it either works or it doesn't.
What are you talking about? I know lot's of normal, cheerful, kind and relaxed people and they do not belong to Aro, so how can you possibly say that the personality traits of a couple of Aro members is a fruit of their practice? They may well have been normal, cheerful, kind and relaxed people BEFORE thay joined Aro. Can we keep the discussion intelligent and meaningful please?
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: On Aro gTér

Postby Gyalpo » Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:26 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:
Alex Hubbard wrote: Hi Greg,

...blah, blah, blah...

All the best,
Alex.
Dear Alex,

If I wanted a topless woman to serve me beer I would just go to a strip club. At least the women there are being paid to show me their breasts and not just being jived with the (same old sexist) pseudo-spiritual b*llsh*t you just dished me up. What do you reckon the men were wearing at the aforementioned tsog?

It's like the Osho crowd: You want to have an orgy? Have an orgy! Why (try to) justify it by saying it is a (pseudo) spiritual trip?

So is that what we use Buddhism for? To justify our need to play "dress up" and perv on some "cleavage"?

Sad. Really f*ck*ng sad! :crying:
:namaste:
PS Sorry for the expletives, but it is the only way Iets me really express exactly how "down" this gets me.


Dear Greg,

my lama, Ven. Lopon Ogyan Tanzin Rinpoche, wa invited by some Aro group to give some Dudjom Tersar teachings. He reported, that they are very good practicioners, but they have to proof they lineage. He also mentioned this tsog with naked yogis/yoginis. He was impressed, that they are doing it as in old times. I have it from my personal conversation with him, no rumors. He also said, that Ngakpa Chogyam helped many tibetan teachers to establish, so we have to be respectfull towards him. Anyway, as for his lineage, he have to go to Tibet and find a proof...

All the best :anjali:

Martin
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Re: On Aro gTér

Postby Yudron » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:01 pm

I think that is a very balanced perspective that your lama has, Martin, and similar from what I have heard from other Tibetan lamas. Good people, questionable lineage.
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Re: On Aro gTér

Postby Simon E. » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:21 pm

Yudron wrote:I think that is a very balanced perspective that your lama has, Martin, and similar from what I have heard from other Tibetan lamas. Good people, questionable lineage.



How many generations of " good people " does it take for the lineage to established ?
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Re: On Aro gTér

Postby byamspa » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:46 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Yudron wrote:I think that is a very balanced perspective that your lama has, Martin, and similar from what I have heard from other Tibetan lamas. Good people, questionable lineage.



How many generations of " good people " does it take for the lineage to established ?


Wrong question. What does a 'good lineage' mean and how is it established, verified and maintained would be a better question.

Lineage isn't a gaggle of folks, its a transmission of energy, traceable back to Guru Rinpoche himself.
Phenomenon, vast as space, dharmata is your base, arising and falling like ocean tide cycles, why do i cling to your illusion of unceasing changlessness?
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Re: On Aro gTér

Postby Simon E. » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:11 pm

Really ?
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Re: On Aro gTér

Postby byamspa » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:36 pm

Simon E. wrote:Really ?


AFAIK. Transmission originates from Guru Rinpoche or Shakyamuni or some other Buddha, and is handed down from teacher to student. This is especially important for deity practice transmission.
Phenomenon, vast as space, dharmata is your base, arising and falling like ocean tide cycles, why do i cling to your illusion of unceasing changlessness?
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Re: On Aro gTér

Postby conebeckham » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:42 pm

Well....

If the Aro folks say their terma came from Guru Rinpoche, and was hidden as Gongter, to be "revealed" only when the time was right, who gets to decide whether that is "traceable back to Guru Rinpoche" himself, or not?
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Re: On Aro gTér

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:37 am

Apologies if I missed something- are they claiming to be tertons? I thought they just say they are teaching Yeshe Tsogyal's dzogchen. I may not be totally clear on what is and what is not a terma.
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