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Did the buddha continue to practice meditation? - Page 3 - Dhamma Wheel

Did the buddha continue to practice meditation?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Sylvester
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Re: Did the buddha continue to practice meditation?

Postby Sylvester » Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:58 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Did the buddha continue to practice meditation?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:02 am


Sylvester
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Re: Did the buddha continue to practice meditation?

Postby Sylvester » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:09 am

Agreed.

Because the 1st Noble Truth defines dukkha as the "5 aggregates associated with clinging" or "5 aggregates that are appropriated".

The asekha's aggregate of vedana (be it pleasant, painful or neutral) remains an aggregate simpliciter, not taken up as part of sakkayaditthi. Sakkayaditthi only arises with clinging. With the ending of dukkha/pancupadanakhandha, the khandhas just roll on without the upadana.

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Re: Did the buddha continue to practice meditation?

Postby ground » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:12 am


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Ben
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Re: Did the buddha continue to practice meditation?

Postby Ben » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:19 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

Akuma
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Re: Did the buddha continue to practice meditation?

Postby Akuma » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:26 am


Sylvester
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Re: Did the buddha continue to practice meditation?

Postby Sylvester » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:37 am


PeterB
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Re: Did the buddha continue to practice meditation?

Postby PeterB » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:10 am

Bald men, combs.
Nothing personal.

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Re: Did the buddha continue to practice meditation?

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:47 am


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Re: Did the buddha continue to practice meditation?

Postby Sylvester » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:17 am


morning mist
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Re: Did the buddha continue to practice meditation?

Postby morning mist » Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:38 am

For those of us who complain about attachment to Vedana, the state that the Buddha frequent is the "Cessation of Perceptions and Feelings" ( saññā - vedayita - nirodhaṃ ) or Sunnata ( The Voidness /Emptiness of Sensual Desire, Being, and Ignorance ) .

For example, he said in the Culasunnata Sutta ( MN 121):

"Now, as well as before, I remain fully in a dwelling of emptiness. "

When it comes to transcending all eight states ( including Neither Perception nor Non- Perception) and abiding in the " Cessation of Perception and Feeling" we can look at the Tapussa Sutta to see how he developed the way to reach the " Cessation of Perception and Feeling" . It is through abandoning all sorts of attachments in each states .

[quote]

[1] "Then the thought occurred to me: 'If, having seen the drawback of sensual pleasures, I were to pursue that theme; and if, having understood the reward of renunciation, I were to familiarize myself with it, there's the possibility that my heart would leap up at renunciation, grow confident, steadfast, & firm, seeing it as peace.'

"So at a later time, having seen the drawback of sensual pleasures, I pursued that theme; having understood the reward of renunciation, I familiarized myself with it. My heart leaped up at renunciation, grew confident, steadfast, & firm, seeing it as peace. Then, quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities, I entered & remained in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation.

"As I remained there, I was beset with attention to perceptions dealing with sensuality. That was an affliction for me. Just as pain arises as an affliction for a healthy person, even so the attention to perceptions dealing with sensuality that beset me was an affliction for me.

[2] "The thought occurred to me: 'What if, with the stilling of directed thoughts & evaluations, I were to enter & remain in the second jhana: rapture & pleasure born of composure, unification of awareness free from directed thought & evaluation — internal assurance.' But my heart didn't leap up at being without directed thought, didn't grow confident, steadfast, or firm, seeing it as peace. The thought occurred to me: 'What is the cause, what is the reason, why my heart doesn't leap up at being without directed thought, doesn't grow confident, steadfast, or firm, seeing it as peace?' Then the thought occurred to me: 'I haven't seen the drawback of directed thought; I haven't pursued that theme. I haven't understood the reward of being without directed thought; I haven't familiarized myself with it. That's why my heart doesn't leap up at being without directed thought, doesn't grow confident, steadfast, or firm, seeing it as peace.'

"Then the thought occurred to me: 'If, having seen the drawback of directed thought, I were to pursue that theme; and if, having understood the reward of being without directed thought, I were to familiarize myself with it, there's the possibility that my heart would leap up at being without directed thought, grow confident, steadfast, & firm, seeing it as peace.'

"So at a later time, having seen the drawback of directed thought, I pursued that theme; having understood the reward of being without directed thought, I familiarized myself with it. My heart leaped up at being without directed thought, grew confident, steadfast, & firm, seeing it as peace. With the stilling of directed thoughts & evaluations, I entered & remained in the second jhana: rapture & pleasure born of composure, unification of awareness free from directed thought & evaluation — internal assurance.

"As I remained there, I was beset with attention to perceptions dealing with directed thought. That was an affliction for me. Just as pain arises as an affliction for a healthy person, even so the attention to perceptions dealing with directed thought that beset me was an affliction for me.

[3] "The thought occurred to me: 'What if, with the fading of rapture, I were to remain in equanimity, mindful & alert, to be physically sensitive to pleasure, and to enter & remain in the third jhana, of which the Noble Ones declare, "Equanimous & mindful, he has a pleasant abiding"?' But my heart didn't leap up at being without rapture, didn't grow confident, steadfast, or firm, seeing it as peace... So at a later time, having seen the drawback of rapture, I pursued that theme; having understood the reward of being without rapture, I familiarized myself with it. My heart leaped up at being without rapture, grew confident, steadfast, & firm, seeing it as peace. With the fading of rapture, I remained in equanimity, mindful & alert, physically sensitive to pleasure, and entered & remained in the third jhana, of which the Noble Ones declare, 'Equanimous & mindful, he has a pleasant abiding.'

"As I remained there, I was beset with attention to perceptions dealing with rapture. That was an affliction for me. Just as pain arises as an affliction for a healthy person, even so the attention to perceptions dealing with rapture that beset me was an affliction for me.

[4] "The thought occurred to me: 'What if, with the abandoning of pleasure & stress — as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress — I were to enter & remain in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither-pleasure-nor-pain?' But my heart didn't leap up at being without the pleasure of equanimity, didn't grow confident, steadfast, or firm, seeing it as peace... So at a later time, having seen the drawback of the pleasure of equanimity, I pursued that theme; having understood the reward of neither-pleasure-nor-pain, I familiarized myself with it. My heart leaped up at neither-pleasure-nor-pain, grew confident, steadfast, & firm, seeing it as peace. With the abandoning of pleasure & stress — as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress — I entered & remained in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither-pleasure-nor-pain.

"As I remained there, I was beset with attention to perceptions dealing with equanimity. That was an affliction for me. Just as pain arises as an affliction for a healthy person, even so the attention to perceptions dealing with equanimity that beset me was an affliction for me.

[5] "The thought occurred to me: 'What if, with the complete transcending of perceptions of [physical] form, with the disappearance of perceptions of resistance, and not heeding perceptions of diversity, thinking, "Infinite space," I were to enter & remain in the dimension of the infinitude of space?' But my heart didn't leap up at the dimension of the infinitude of space, didn't grow confident, steadfast, or firm, seeing it as peace... So at a later time, having seen the drawback of forms, I pursued that theme; having understood the reward of the dimension of the infinitude of space, I familiarized myself with it. My heart leaped up at the dimension of the infinitude of space, grew confident, steadfast, & firm, seeing it as peace. With the complete transcending of perceptions of form, with the disappearance of perceptions of resistance, and not heeding perceptions of diversity, [perceiving,] 'Infinite space,' I entered & remained in the dimension of the infinitude of space.

"As I remained there, I was beset with attention to perceptions dealing with forms. That was an affliction for me. Just as pain arises as an affliction for a healthy person, even so the attention to perceptions dealing with forms that beset me was an affliction for me.

[6] "The thought occurred to me: 'What if, with the complete transcending of the dimension of the infinitude of space, thinking, "Infinite consciousness," I were to enter & remain in the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness?' But my heart didn't leap up at the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, didn't grow confident, steadfast, or firm, seeing it as peace... So at a later time, having seen the drawback of the dimension of the infinitude of space, I pursued that theme; having understood the reward of the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, I familiarized myself with it. My heart leaped up at the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, grew confident, steadfast, & firm, seeing it as peace. With the complete transcending of the dimension of the infinitude of space, [perceiving,] 'Infinite consciousness,' I entered & remained in the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness.

"As I remained there, I was beset with attention to perceptions dealing with the dimension of the infinitude of space. That was an affliction for me. Just as pain arises as an affliction for a healthy person, even so the attention to perceptions dealing with the dimension of the infinitude of space that beset me was an affliction for me.

[7] "The thought occurred to me: 'What if, with the complete transcending of the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, thinking, "There is nothing," I were to enter & remain in the dimension of nothingness?' But my heart didn't leap up at the dimension of nothingness, didn't grow confident, steadfast, or firm, seeing it as peace... So at a later time, having seen the drawback of the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, I pursued that theme; having understood the reward of the dimension of nothingness, I familiarized myself with it. My heart leaped up at the dimension of nothingness, grew confident, steadfast, & firm, seeing it as peace. With the complete transcending of the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, [perceiving,] 'There is nothing,' I entered & remained in the dimension of nothingness.

"As I remained there, I was beset with attention to perceptions dealing with the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness. That was an affliction for me. Just as pain arises as an affliction for a healthy person, even so the attention to perceptions dealing with the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness that beset me was an affliction for me.

[8] "The thought occurred to me: 'What if I, with the complete transcending of the dimension of nothingness, were to enter & remain in the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception?' But my heart didn't leap up at the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception, didn't grow confident, steadfast, or firm, seeing it as peace... So at a later time, having seen the drawback of the dimension of nothingness, I pursued that theme; having understood the reward of the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception, I familiarized myself with it. My heart leaped up at the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception, grew confident, steadfast, & firm, seeing it as peace. With the complete transcending of the dimension of nothingness, I entered & remained in the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception.

"As I remained there, I was beset with attention to perceptions dealing with the dimension of nothingness. That was an affliction for me. Just as pain arises as an affliction for a healthy person, even so the attention to perceptions dealing with the dimension of nothingness that beset me was an affliction for me.

[9] "The thought occurred to me: 'What if I, with the complete transcending of the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception, were to enter & remain in the cessation of perception & feeling?' But my heart didn't leap up at the cessation of perception & feeling, didn't grow confident, steadfast, or firm, seeing it as peace. The thought occurred to me: 'What is the cause, what is the reason, why my heart doesn't leap up at the cessation of perception & feeling, doesn't grow confident, steadfast, or firm, seeing it as peace?' Then the thought occurred to me: 'I haven't seen the drawback of the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception; I haven't pursued that theme. I haven't understood the reward of the cessation of perception & feeling; I haven't familiarized myself with it. That's why my heart doesn't leap up at the cessation of perception & feeling, doesn't grow confident, steadfast, or firm, seeing it as peace.'

"Then the thought occurred to me: 'If, having seen the drawback of the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception, I were to pursue that theme; and if, having understood the reward of the cessation of perception & feeling, I were to familiarize myself with it, there's the possibility that my heart would leap up at the cessation of perception & feeling, grow confident, steadfast, & firm, seeing it as peace.'

"So at a later time, having seen the drawback of the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception, I pursued that theme; having understood the reward of the cessation of perception & feeling, I familiarized myself with it. My heart leaped up at the cessation of perception & feeling, grew confident, steadfast, & firm, seeing it as peace. With the complete transcending of the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception, I entered & remained in the cessation of perception & feeling. And as I saw with discernment, the mental fermentations went to their total end.

"Ananda, as long as I had not attained & emerged from these nine step-by-step dwelling-attainments in forward & backward order in this way, I did not claim to have directly awakened to the right self-awakening unexcelled in the cosmos with its devas, Maras, & Brahmas, with its contemplatives & priests, its royalty & common people. But as soon as I had attained & emerged from these nine step-by-step dwelling-attainments in forward & backward order in this way, then I did claim to have directly awakened to the right self-awakening unexcelled in the cosmos with its devas, Maras, & Brahmas, with its contemplatives & priests, its royalty & common people. Knowledge & vision arose in me: 'My release is unshakable. This is the last birth. There is now no further becoming.'"

[quote]


Where is the attachment to Vedana in the " Cessation of Perception and Feeling" ?
Last edited by morning mist on Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
with metta,

morning mist
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Re: Did the buddha continue to practice meditation?

Postby morning mist » Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:45 am

SOMETIMES THE BUDDHA WOULD ABIDE IN THE STATE OF LOVING-KINDNESS, COMPASSION, ALTRUISTIC JOY, AND EQUANIMITY INSTEAD

"... After the meal is over and returning from the alms round, I roam in that forest stretch. Gathering some grass or leaves together into one place , I sit there cross legged , keeping the body straight and establishing mindfulness in front.

1. "...I dwells pervading one quarter with a mind filled with Lovingkindness; likewise the second quarter, likewise the third quarter, likewise the fourth quarter. Thus above, below, across, everywhere and to everyone as well as to myself, I dwell pervading the whole world with lovingkindness that is vast, exalted, boundless, without enmity, without ill-will.

2. "Furthermore, I dwell pervading one quarter with a mind filled with Compassion…per-vading the whole world with compassion...boundless, without enmity, without ill-will.

3. "I dwell pervading one quarter with a mind filled with Altruistic Joy…pervading the whole world with altruistic joy...boundless, without enmity, without ill-will.

4 . "I dwell pervading one quarter with a mind filled with Equanimity, likewise the second quarter, likewise the third quarter, likewise the fourth quarter. Thus above, below, across, everywhere and to everyone as well as to myself, I dwell pervading the whole world with equanimity that is vast, exalted, boundless, without enmity, without ill-will.

"... in that abiding I walk...In that abiding I stand... In that abiding I sit... In that abiding I recline.."



ABIDING IN A STATE WITHOUT THE THREE UNWHOLESOME ROOTS ( Sunnata) - RAGA, DOSA, MOHA

"After the meal is over and returning from the alms round, I roam in that forest stretch. Gathering some grass or leaves together into one place , I sit there cross legged , keeping the body straight and establishing mindfulness in front.
Then I know thus:
‘Passion ( raga) has been abandoned, pulled out at the root, made them like a palm-tree stump, done away with them so that they are not subject to grow again.

Aversion ( dosa) has been abandoned, pulled out at the root, made them like a palm-tree stump, done away with them so that they are not subject to grow again.

Delusion (moha) has been abandoned, pulled out at the root, made them like a palm-tree stump, done away with them so that they are not subject to grow again.’

"... in that abiding I walk...In that abiding I stand... In that abiding I sit... In that abiding I recline.." - Venagapura Sutta
with metta,

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ground
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Re: Did the buddha continue to practice meditation?

Postby ground » Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:05 am


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Ben
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Re: Did the buddha continue to practice meditation?

Postby Ben » Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:21 am

Respectfully, I disagree with you Ming.
Vedanas do not condition dukkha if one no longer develops craving or aversion as an affective response to vedana.
Vedanas still exist for an arahant except when in the meditative attainment of nirodha samapati or a yogi is abiding in the formless jhanas.

kind regards
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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ground
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Re: Did the buddha continue to practice meditation?

Postby ground » Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:37 am


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Ben
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Re: Did the buddha continue to practice meditation?

Postby Ben » Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:41 am

What?
I can assure you there is no reification of the word vedana going on here, Ming.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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ground
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Re: Did the buddha continue to practice meditation?

Postby ground » Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:44 am


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Ben
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Re: Did the buddha continue to practice meditation?

Postby Ben » Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:49 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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mikenz66
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Re: Did the buddha continue to practice meditation?

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:02 am


Nyana
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Re: Did the buddha continue to practice meditation?

Postby Nyana » Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:45 am



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