Tsongkhapafan wrote:Malcolm wrote: I submit that no human being ever perceived Mt. Meru with a conventionally valid cognition. Mt.Meru is and always been a cosmological Indian myth about which there are various and conflicting traditions.
Asanga and Nagarjuna have both seen it.
That's a novel approach. Where, in any work of these two masters, do they claim to have personally visited Meru?
They were great realised beings, so I submit that they had conventionally valid cognitions.
But there is no evidence that they held forth the idea that they had personally visited Meru. So you are merely engaging in proliferation, rank conceptual fabrication.
To use another example, are we to say that Tushita and Akanishta Pure Lands do not exist because they have never been the objects of human valid cognitions? (actually, while being generally true that humans cannot see Tushita Pure Land, Asanga saw it with his human conventionally valid eye consciousness).
No, this is false. Asanga had meditational experience of Tushita. He did not observe Tushita with his physical eyes.
We cannot say that something doesn't exist just because we cannot perceive it.
Doesn't it strike you as odd that certain facts about the world never change (sun, moon and stars), while other facts (flat earth --> round earth) do? Basically, all this indicates to me is that we have become better at analyzing and investigating the world, not worse, and that such obsolete cosmologies as the one we are discussing come from a time prior to that ability -- i.e. these suppositions could not be tested.
If Mount Sumeru is mythological, why is it referred to in the Sutras and Tantras (for example, Heruka's palace is on top of Mount Meru)?
Because Mahāyāna sutras and tantras are filled with Indian myths and legends.