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Debts - Dhamma Wheel

Debts

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
ashtanga
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Debts

Postby ashtanga » Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:51 pm

I would like to consider ordaining at some juncture. However, I have some debts that although being managed will never be paid off. What are my options? Bancruptcy? :broke:

Thanks Tony...

PeterB
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Re: Debts

Postby PeterB » Sat Jan 08, 2011 6:44 pm

Hmmm...I am sure the good forum Bhikkhus will correct me if wrong, but I am not sure that a procedure like bankruptcy is allowed for in the Vinaya.

ashtanga
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Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: Debts

Postby ashtanga » Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:42 pm

...well in the current climate there are likely to be only middle class people with no debts liable to be ordaining in the future. Credit is a fact of life nowadays!

Tony.,..

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Phra Chuntawongso
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Re: Debts

Postby Phra Chuntawongso » Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:00 pm

Bankrupcy may not be something that happened in the time of the Buddha.
I personally don't know about the implications of this,but will ask my Abbot if he has an answer and will get back at a later time.
With metta,
Phra Greg
And crawling on the planets face,some insects called the human race.
Lost in time
Lost in space
And meaning

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andre9999
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Re: Debts

Postby andre9999 » Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:38 pm


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Goofaholix
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Re: Debts

Postby Goofaholix » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:36 am


ashtanga
Posts: 33
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Re: Debts

Postby ashtanga » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:29 pm

Not enough assets to cover my debt. I worked in IT for nearly two decades that brought with it plenty of money but also plenty of credit. I then changed several years ago to work in social care. I am a Psychologicalo Therapist now, my current salary is what I used to get for a bonus. I managed my debts but they will never get paid off.

Tony...

rowyourboat
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Location: London, UK

Re: Debts

Postby rowyourboat » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:46 pm

Hi Ashtanga

I think the issue with debts is that no-one should make the Sangha a refuge from debt (money owed to others). If you file for bankruptcy your debts will be written off. It will be a good act of renunciation to begin with, before you go for the actual one.

with metta

Matheesha :anjali:
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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andre9999
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Re: Debts

Postby andre9999 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:49 pm


PeterB
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Re: Debts

Postby PeterB » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:51 pm

Sorry Matheesha but I dont think UK bankruptcy works that way. Ones debts are seldom written off. The bankrupt person is usually required to pay off an agreed amount in the pound. If they have no no assets then the time will be extended, not waived.

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cooran
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Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: Debts

Postby cooran » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:09 pm

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

householder
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Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:00 pm

Re: Debts

Postby householder » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:11 pm

I'm not an insolvency practitioner. But if your debts are a problem, seek professional advice. Some loans do survive bankruptcy by statute, for example. My understanding is that it is not an easy way out and is something that should not be taken lightly.

Do retreats at centres that can accommodate your limited means, or explain your circumstances if you wish to attend a centre which may not seem to on first blush. Your financial situation should not be a hindrance to practice, but unskilfully dealing with your financial situation would, I believe, be a hindrance to your practice.

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Annapurna
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Re: Debts

Postby Annapurna » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:30 pm

Hello, Ashtanga,

have you seen a debt counsellor?

Often a debt counsellor can mediate between the parties and achieve satisfying compromises for both parties.

In all probability the ones you owe money to, banks, etc, will agree to giving up a part of the money voluntarily, if a professional steps in and renegotiates the conditons of a realistic and reasonable compensation that they would have never agreed to if they were dealing with a 'normal mortal'.

That would be a first step, and then you will see with how much debt you are left, and for how long.

I have never heard before that people have to pay until they die.

Compromises and other conditions are always possible.

In one case, that I personally know, a bank wanted to take the house from a woman, because she could not pay the debts off. (Not me)

The whole thing ended up before a judge, and he decided the bank has to offer new conditions, which allowed her to pay her debts off.

Please get help.

After a solution is worked out here, you can reconsider ordaining. :hug:

Good luck!
Last edited by Annapurna on Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

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kirk5a
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Re: Debts

Postby kirk5a » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:31 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

PeterB
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Re: Debts

Postby PeterB » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:34 pm

I rather think that would come down to the view of the preceptor.

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Annapurna
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Re: Debts

Postby Annapurna » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:38 pm

And btw, inheriting debts....in Germany you don't have to accept an inheritance.

If you inherit debts, you can reject it.
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

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Goofaholix
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Re: Debts

Postby Goofaholix » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:41 pm


PeterB
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Re: Debts

Postby PeterB » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:49 pm

Its just the kind of topic where the input from our Bhikkhu members would be invaluable. .........

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Annapurna
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Re: Debts

Postby Annapurna » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:09 pm

http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

ashtanga
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Re: Debts

Postby ashtanga » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:23 pm

...this is true. I have been out of IT for too long now. I never had any intentioin on getting ito debt, it was a negative result of embarking on a more compassionate career so late in life. |Maybe I should have stayed in IT making ££££'s but doing little for anyone but large corporations :stirthepot:

I am not in MASSIVE debt but what I owe I manage each month as a 'gesture'. This however, means that it will never be paid off - there's a green dot next to my account which means its in hand lol

I am not being impulsive either. I have been a Buddhist for over 20 years now. My daughter is 17 and ithin a couple of years probable looking to get her own place. Perfect time for me to consider ordination. If I cannot be accepted with the Forest Tradition maybe I will have to look to other more leniant traditions?

Tony...


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