Should indiviuals be married and be monk?

Should indiviuals be married and be monk?

Postby enjitsu » Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:19 am

Amito Fo,

Recently my office received an e-mail from a westerner regarding their experience with a Tendai group in America. Upon review of the situation it was determined that 2 issues needed to be clarified for all westerners.

The first is that it is inappropriate for any individual to be married and to claim/function as a monk/nun. In reality any individual who is married at the time of requesting the monkhood, is ineligible to receive it. It is inappropriate/incorrect for this to be ignored and the monkhood to be granted. If it is ignored, then the monkhood is considered invalid. Also, If any individual gets married after already having received the monkhood it is likewise inappropriate/incorrect for the individual to continue to function as a monk/nun.

Why is it so, because in marriage the husband and wife will have sex. This is the most serious and therefore #1 rule of the Vinaya (the body of rules which Samgha members *must* follow) Samgha members are not allowed to have sex of any kind, therefore it follows they are not allowed to be married as that entails sex. If the rule is broken, generally the individual loses their monkhood effective immediately.

To have individuals who claim to be monks and nuns but then are married, have sex and even kids, work other jobs etc., causes great confusion among the laity as to who is and is not a member of the Samgha. So to simplify, if a person has sex, they are not a monk or nun.

The second issue that needed to be addressed was regarding the proper distribution of Mikkyo related materials. Specifically, it is a violation of the rules of Transmission of Esoteric Dharma to distribute Mikkyo related materials in an open manner. Specifically, you are not allowed to type up Dharani on flyers and to pass them out. That is inappropriate. Mikkyo is precious and not to be treated so lightly as to hand it out where it may be abused, corrupted, etc., Please see the other discussion regarding the rules of transmission of esoteric dharma.

Amito Fo,
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Re: Should indiviuals be married and be monk?

Postby Jikan » Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:37 pm

Hi Enjitsu,

I have a few questions about the claims you make in your post. For now I'll limit myself to only two issues, which relate to the questions you pose about this particular Tendai group.

First, on Mikkyo: yes, you're very much correct that dharani should not be distributed and that maintaining a pure transmission lineage is a matter of first-order importance. My question in response: who have you seen distributing dharani on flyers and other public materials? (It's not unusual to print dharani on practice materials for students to use, but these are hardly posted in public places as flyers.) More broadly, which group are you speaking of regarding transmission in this sense?

Second, on clergy. In Tendai-shu, we take the Bodhisattva precepts and not the Vinaya of bikkshu (monks) and bikkshuni (nuns). This is public knowledge and it's been this way since Dengyo Daishi's time. Due to the historical circumstances of the Meiji Restoration, Tendai priests have in fact been married. In the States, we generally describe ourselves not as monks but as "priests" to ensure this distinction is clear. To the point: yes, Tendai clergy are typically married and everyone knows this. What, specifically, is your problem?
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Re: Should indiviuals be married and be monk?

Postby Indrajala » Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:29 pm

Not just Tendai, but Shingon likewise in Japan has married priests.

Enjitsu claims to have some kind of purported connection to Shingon (which is suspect as Eijo earlier has pointed out and Eijo indeed is a recognized authority), yet he's saying one can't be ordained while married (this is contrary to how Shingon actually is).
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Re: Should indiviuals be married and be monk?

Postby Jikan » Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:27 am

Huseng wrote:Not just Tendai, but Shingon likewise in Japan has married priests.

Enjitsu claims to have some kind of purported connection to Shingon (which is suspect as Eijo earlier has pointed out and Eijo indeed is a recognized authority), yet he's saying one can't be ordained while married (this is contrary to how Shingon actually is).


Indeed. I was going to ask enjitsu about this and other of his/her claims.

Since this is a Tendai subforum, what I'd like to know most is what particular Tendai group enjitsu finds objectionable so we can discuss it concretely.
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Re: Should indiviuals be married and be monk?

Postby Indrajala » Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:32 am

He probably won't reply. He just posts his declarations and seldom ever replies to comments, questions and criticism.
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Re: Should indiviuals be married and be monk?

Postby Jikan » Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:08 am

Huseng wrote:He probably won't reply. He just posts his declarations and seldom ever replies to comments, questions and criticism.



That's a shame. :shrug:
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Re: Should indiviuals be married and be monk?

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:11 pm

Enjitsu, before posting further I recommend that you explain why you continue to claim to be the" Westerner Representative of Buddhism."

Thanks,
Laura
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Re: Should indiviuals be married and be monk?

Postby plwk » Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:41 am

ND dearie...as recommended on another thread....DFTT :jumping:
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Re: Should indiviuals be married and be monk?

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:54 am

:smile: :toilet:
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Re: Should indiviuals be married and be monk?

Postby Seishin » Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:05 am

Enjitsu's profile doesn't exist anymore. Has it been removed? :thinking:
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Re: Should indiviuals be married and be monk?

Postby Astus » Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:24 pm

"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T51n2076, p461b24-26)
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