Enlightenment/Knowing What You Are

A place for videos, pictures, and any other sort of Buddhist or non-Buddhist media.

Enlightenment/Knowing What You Are

Postby Kunga Lhadzom » Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:37 pm

What do you think ? Is KNOWING you ARE consciousness (Awareness) Enlightenment ?
What do you think of this teacher : Christine Breese ?
Thank you
_/\_


User avatar
Kunga Lhadzom
 
Posts: 291
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:01 am

Re: Enlightenment/Knowing What You Are

Postby Mr. G » Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:56 pm

Kunga Lhadzom wrote:What do you think ? Is KNOWING you ARE consciousness (Awareness) Enlightenment ?


No.

What do you think of this teacher : Christine Breese ?


Standard New Ager
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
User avatar
Mr. G
 
Posts: 4098
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:36 am
Location: Spaceship Earth

Re: Enlightenment/Knowing What You Are

Postby Paul » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:39 pm

This whole 'you are Awareness' schtick that is appearing on the internet is getting old. It has nothing to do with Mahamudra and Dzogchen, which it is often sold as.

For anyone who is interested, Mahamudra, Dzogchen and all other Buddhist teachings are still alive and well - and surprisingly easy to get access to. Moreso now than ever before in history, probably. There is no need for anyone to settle for New Age teachings from the internet.
User avatar
Paul
 
Posts: 792
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:12 pm

Re: Enlightenment/Knowing What You Are

Postby Kunga Lhadzom » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:00 pm

Paul wrote:This whole 'you are Awareness' schtick that is appearing on the internet is getting old. It has nothing to do with Mahamudra and Dzogchen, which it is often sold as.



This is the first time I ever heard of it...I'm not into New Age stuff.

Paul wrote:For anyone who is interested, Mahamudra, Dzogchen and all other Buddhist teachings are still alive and well - and surprisingly easy to get access to. Moreso now than ever before in history, probably. There is no need for anyone to settle for New Age teachings from the internet.


After reading Longchenpa Rabjams' [The Precious Treasury], I thought ALL was equal.

I know I am still confused.
I will talk to my teacher soon about this.


Thank you
User avatar
Kunga Lhadzom
 
Posts: 291
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:01 am

Re: Enlightenment/Knowing What You Are

Postby Paul » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:09 pm

Kunga Lhadzom wrote:
Paul wrote:This whole 'you are Awareness' schtick that is appearing on the internet is getting old. It has nothing to do with Mahamudra and Dzogchen, which it is often sold as.



This is the first time I ever heard of it...I'm not into New Age stuff.


It's getting quite popular - there are a lot of people setting themselves up as 'non-dual' gurus these days. They often claim to be teaching Dzogchen. Also Mahamudra, Zen, vipassana, advaita etc. all at the same time. This usually involves very expensive retreats...

If you've not come across it you are very fortunate.


After reading Longchenpa Rabjams' [The Precious Treasury], I thought ALL was equal.

I know I am still confused.
I will talk to my teacher soon about this.


Equal in what way? Anyway, I think that talking to your teacher is always the very best thing to do.
User avatar
Paul
 
Posts: 792
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:12 pm

Re: Enlightenment/Knowing What You Are

Postby Kunga Lhadzom » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:14 am

Paul wrote:Equal in what way?


The Precious Treasury of the Basic Space of Phenomena

Introduction

Homage to the glorious Samantabhadra!

Naturally occurring timeless awareness - utterly lucid awakened mind -
is something marvelous and superb, primordially and spontaneously present.
It is the treasury of which comes the universe of appearances and possibilities, whether of samsara or nirvana.

Homage to that unwavering state, free of elaboration.

The very pinnacle of spiritual approaches, the expanse in which the sun and moon orbit the most majestic mountain,
is the expanse of the vajra heart essence - spontaneously present and utterly lucid -
the expanse of the naturally settled state that entails no effort or achievement.
Listen as I explain this superb, timelessly infinite expanse.

The Adornment of Basic Space

Within the expanse of spontaneous presence is the ground of all that arises.
Empty in essence, continuous by nature,
it has never existed as anything whatsoever, yet arises as anything at all.
Within the expanse of the three kayas, although samsara and nirvana arise naturally,
they do not stray from basic space - such is the blissful realm that is the true nature of phenomena.

Mind itself is a vast expanse, the realm of unchanging space.
Its indeterminate display is the expanse of the magical expression of its responsiveness.
Everything is the adornment of basic space and nothing else.
Outwardly and inwardly, things proliferating and resolving are the dynamic energy of awakened mind.
Because this is nothing whatsoever yet arises as anything at all,
it is a marvellous and magical expression, amazing and superb.

Throughout the entire universe, all beings and all that manifests as form
are adornments of basic space, arising as the ongoing principle of enlightened form.
What is audible, all sounds and voices without exception, as many as there may be,
are adornments of basic space, arising as the ongoing principle of enlightened speech.
All consciousness and all stirring and proliferation of thoughts, as well
as the inconceivable range of nonconceptual states,
are adornments of basic space, arising as the ongoing principle of enlightened mind.

Beings born in the six classes through the four avenues of rebirth, moreover,
do not stray in the slightest from the basic space of phenomena.
The universe of appearances and possibilities -
the six kinds of sense objects manifesting in dualistic perception -
appears within the realm of the basic space of phenomena just as illusions
do, manifest yet nonexistent.
Without underlying support, vividly apparent yet timelessly empty,
supremely spacious, and utterly clear, just as it is,
the universe arises as the adornment of the basic space of phenomena.

However things appear or sound, within the vast realm of basic space
they do not stray from their spontaneous equalness as dharmakaya,
awakened mind.
Since the timless state of utter relaxation is naturally empty and without
transition or change,
whatever manifests constitutes the scope of naturally occurring timeless
awareness, the true nature of phenomena,
merging in a single blissful expanse, without any effort, without
anything needing to be done.

Sambhogakaya is unwavering natural lucidity.
Even as anything at all manifests, it is by nature spontaneously present,
uncontrived and unadulterated - a pervasive state of spontaneous
equalness.
Due to the way in which the distinct, myriad display arises,
emanations occur naturally - the amazing magic of what has ultimate
meaning.
They never stray from the wholly positive state in which nothing need
be done.

Within awakened mind itself, which is without pitfalls,
the spontaneous perfection of the three kayas, entailing no effort,
is such that, without straying from basic space, they are spontaneously
present and uncompounded.
The spontaneous perfection of the kayas, timeless awareness, and
enlightened activity, moreover,
is a great amassing - the supreme expanse that is timelessly perfect,
timelessly arising.

Timelessly and spontaneously present, this pure realm is without
transition or change.
With the perception of the true nature of phenomena within basic space,
wisdom arises continuously as the adornment of that space.
Not created or ahieved, it abides timelessly.
Like the sun in the sky, it is amazing and superb.

Within this ultimate womb of basic space, timelessly and spontaneously
present,
samsara is wholly positive, nirvana is positive.
Within the wholly positive expanse, samsara and nirvana have never
existed.
Sensory appearances are wholly positive, emptiness is positive.
Within the wholly positive expanse, appearances and emptiness have
never existed.
Birth and death are wholly positive, happiness and suffering are positive.
Within the wholly positive expanse, birth, death, happiness, and suffering
have never existed.
Self and other are wholly positive, affirmation and negation are positive.
Within the wholly positive expanse, self, other, affirmation, and negation
have never existed.

Labeling takes place in confusion, for what is nonexistent is taken to exist.
Given that the nature of things is similar to that of dream images, which
have no basis,
how exceedingly strange it is to fixate on samsara and nirvana as though
they existed in their own right!

Everything is wholly positive, a supreme state of spontaneous presence.
Since there never has been confusion, is no confusion, and never will be
confusion,
conditioned existence is merely a label.
It is beyond the extremes of existence and nonexistence.
Since no one has ever been confused at all in the past,
no one is confused at present and no one will be confused later on.
This is the enlightened intent of the original purity of the three planes of
conditioned existence.

Since there is no confusion, nothing exists as some confused state.
Supreme, naturally occurring awareness is timelessly and spontaneously
present.
Since there never has been freedom, is no freedom, and never will be
freedom,
nirvana is just a label and there is no one who has ever known freedom.
There never will be freedom, for there never has been bondage.
Complete purity, like space, is free of being restricted or localized.
This is the enlightened intent of the original purity of total freedom.

In brief, within the ultimate womb of basic space, spacious and
spontaneously present,
whatever arises as the dynamic energy of its display - as samsara or
nirvana -
in the very moment of simply arising has never known existence as
samsara or nirvana.
Whatever arises in a dream due to the dynamic energy of sleep does not
actually exist.
There is only self-knowing awareness, the blissful place of rest,
extending infinitely as the supremely spacious state of spontaneous
equalness.

[Longchenpa]


So....................even what Breese says in her video, is the adornment of basic space...equal to everything else in The Precious Treasury of the Basic Space of Phenomena.
User avatar
Kunga Lhadzom
 
Posts: 291
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:01 am

Re: Enlightenment/Knowing What You Are

Postby Kunga Lhadzom » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:38 am

Because everything is equally empty. All there is, is the spontaneous naturally occurring timeless AWARENESS....which is naturally Enlightened....and that is what we are.
User avatar
Kunga Lhadzom
 
Posts: 291
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:01 am

Re: Enlightenment/Knowing What You Are

Postby muni » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:27 am

Kunga, "all beings and all that manifests as form
are adornments of basic space"............ Emaho!
muni
 
Posts: 2911
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Enlightenment/Knowing What You Are

Postby Paul » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:27 pm

Kunga Lhadzom wrote:So....................even what Breese says in her video, is the adornment of basic space...equal to everything else in The Precious Treasury of the Basic Space of Phenomena.

Kunga Lhadzom wrote:Because everything is equally empty. All there is, is the spontaneous naturally occurring timeless AWARENESS....which is naturally Enlightened....and that is what we are.


She is not in agreement with Longchenpa. Like all of these New Age non-dualists she is talking about the mind being real in some way - the 'imagination of the mind of god'. Longchenpa is talking about "mind itself" - what mind actually is in its nature, not mind per-se. Tony Duff often makes a point of this in his translations. This is a significant difference that is never made in this kind of pop non-dualism.

Anyway - you should take this to a Dzogchen teacher and see whether it's worth paying any notice of.
User avatar
Paul
 
Posts: 792
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:12 pm

Re: Enlightenment/Knowing What You Are

Postby Kunga Lhadzom » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:25 pm

Paul wrote:She is not in agreement with Longchenpa.


But Longchenpas says that EVERYTHING is the adornment of basic space, all form, sounds, color, taste, consciousness, thoughts,etc. And EVERYTHING IS EQUAL .
So there is no better teacher than another. Everything comes from(is), this timeless spontaneous presence (Awareness).

I never got excited about having a famous Dzogchen teacher.
Pure View is very important .

Anywho....I will certainly discuss this with my teacher....I just realized Longchenpa must be my teacher too....reading the Precious Treasury had a profound effect on me...unlike anything else I have read, then this woman Christine Breese also had a profound effect on me...the "Lord" works in mysterious ways :)
I feel I have "broken through" FINALLY ! Now to "maintain".

Thank You Mr. G, Paul, and dear Muni _/\_
User avatar
Kunga Lhadzom
 
Posts: 291
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:01 am

Re: Enlightenment/Knowing What You Are

Postby Jikan » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:56 pm

the seven stages bit comes from Da Free John (Adi Da), filtered through Ken Wilber (who is more strongly influenced by Da than his followers might like to admit).

it's more neo-advaita than new age strictly speaking, that's my point.
Jikan
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5116
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm

Re: Enlightenment/Knowing What You Are

Postby Astus » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:41 pm

Following the logic of the Brahmajala Sutta, these teachings - just like most of the other spiritual and religious doctrines - come from certain meditative experiences. So, instead of the common mindset people follow, some find for themselves an alternative consciousness to identify with. The eight dhyanas and the many heavens of the three worlds are all fine descriptions of these possible points of self-view. So we find that she talks about a playful god imagining everything. Well, there are such gods who just play around creating things for their own pleasure in Buddhist cosmology, they live on the second highest heaven of the desire-realm. A lot more serene and splendid than this human world. But it's not as good as the first dhyana and related heavens. And then, of course, nirvana is not like any heaven at all. Because as long as one finds a "perfect mind", a "divine consciousness", or anything similar, that is still attachment, that is still impermanent, the realm of samsara.
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T51n2076, p461b24-26)
User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
 
Posts: 4226
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Enlightenment/Knowing What You Are

Postby Kunga Lhadzom » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:13 am

Astus wrote:Following the logic of the Brahmajala Sutta, these teachings - just like most of the other spiritual and religious doctrines - come from certain meditative experiences. So, instead of the common mindset people follow, some find for themselves an alternative consciousness to identify with. The eight dhyanas and the many heavens of the three worlds are all fine descriptions of these possible points of self-view. So we find that she talks about a playful god imagining everything. Well, there are such gods who just play around creating things for their own pleasure in Buddhist cosmology, they live on the second highest heaven of the desire-realm. A lot more serene and splendid than this human world. But it's not as good as the first dhyana and related heavens. And then, of course, nirvana is not like any heaven at all. Because as long as one finds a "perfect mind", a "divine consciousness", or anything similar, that is still attachment, that is still impermanent, the realm of samsara.


Have you read The Precious Treasury of the Basic Space of Phenomena by Longchenpa Rabjam ?

I'm starting to feel a real need for direction and a teacher that can help me. I put off looking for any other teacher other than the
one I've had all these years....even though he dosn't teach anything...only when I ask him a question.....but I don't care about empowerments, initiations, ritual, etc anymore.....I rarely practice anything....I feel like a misfit.

Can Longchenpa be my teacher or do I need a living Dzogchen teacher ? Or can my Sakya teacher do the same thing for me that

ChNN can ?


Thank You Astus
_/\_
User avatar
Kunga Lhadzom
 
Posts: 291
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:01 am

Re: Enlightenment/Knowing What You Are

Postby Astus » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:13 am

Kunga Lhadzom wrote:Have you read The Precious Treasury of the Basic Space of Phenomena by Longchenpa Rabjam ?

I'm starting to feel a real need for direction and a teacher that can help me. I put off looking for any other teacher other than the
one I've had all these years....even though he dosn't teach anything...only when I ask him a question.....but I don't care about empowerments, initiations, ritual, etc anymore.....I rarely practice anything....I feel like a misfit.

Can Longchenpa be my teacher or do I need a living Dzogchen teacher ? Or can my Sakya teacher do the same thing for me that

ChNN can ?


Vajrayana is more than just a single book or a single teacher. While you may stick to one Living master and follow his programme of training, if you first or at the same time want to study the written teachings, you better do it in a circumspect way. That is, familiarise yourself with the different Buddhist doctrines (Abhidharma, sutras, Madhyamaka, Yogacara, Tantra) in a gradual and systematic fashion. You may only want Dzogchen, but without an established knowledge of Buddhism in general, people are prone to misunderstand many things, because they don't have the appropriate frame of reference, so they just read the teachings according to their own mundane views.
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T51n2076, p461b24-26)
User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
 
Posts: 4226
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Enlightenment/Knowing What You Are

Postby Paul » Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:23 am

Kunga Lhadzom wrote:Can Longchenpa be my teacher or do I need a living Dzogchen teacher ?


You can only learn Dzogchen from a real live teacher.
User avatar
Paul
 
Posts: 792
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:12 pm

Re: Enlightenment/Knowing What You Are

Postby DarwidHalim » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:36 am

Kunga Lhadzom wrote:
Paul wrote:She is not in agreement with Longchenpa.


But Longchenpas says that EVERYTHING is the adornment of basic space, all form, sounds, color, taste, consciousness, thoughts,etc. And EVERYTHING IS EQUAL .
So there is no better teacher than another. Everything comes from(is), this timeless spontaneous presence (Awareness).

I never got excited about having a famous Dzogchen teacher.
Pure View is very important .

Anywho....I will certainly discuss this with my teacher....I just realized Longchenpa must be my teacher too....reading the Precious Treasury had a profound effect on me...unlike anything else I have read, then this woman Christine Breese also had a profound effect on me...the "Lord" works in mysterious ways :)
I feel I have "broken through" FINALLY ! Now to "maintain".


OK. First of all, this word "EVERYTHING IS EQUAL" needs to be carefully understood.

A piece of wood is not same with mind. A piece of wood cannot think. Mind can think. So, it is very obvious, they are not equal.

This issues have been addressed by Shantideva.

He said :
If you think everything is equal, than eating your shit will be equal to eating your food.

Definitely, food and shit can never be the same.

So, where is this word equal stand for? If you notice everything that is transient has one distinct feature. It is always like that, timelessly. And that thing is they are equal in being transient, having no essence, having no self.

However, although everything have this basic ground of similarity, when the cause and condition are different, food and the shit cannot be the same at that particular moment.

However, it also doesn't mean that food and shit cannot be the same. They can. It may not be now. But, if the cause and condition among them change, a shit can change to a food.

Actually shit can change to the food. Because of the cause and condition of the plant, this shit becomes the nutrient of the plant, and that plant become the food.

So, shit can become the food. Food can become the shit. Both are true only when there is a cause and condition that can make them to be same. But when the cause and condition are different. Food is food. Shit is shit.

This shouldn't give rise the sense of rigidity. At the same time, it also shouldn't give the sense of similarity. Because it can be both depending on waht factors affecting them.

Since they are transient, having no self, this can become that, that can become this if you can have the cause and condition.
Consequently, if we can never have that cause and condition, this can never become that, that can never become this.

If we put the ice in minus 100 degree. And If we never ever change that cause and condition, there is no way that ice can become water. Even for billion billion of years.

Can the wood become the mind? This is also not possible. Because you cannot have the cause and condition that can make a wood become the mind. It is different with the shit and food. THere is a plant that can make it possible. But for wood and mind, it is not possible.

This also shouldn't rise the sense of distinction of self A and self B, because it cannot happen just because there is no cause and condition.

Sakya school has a very unique teaching derived from Virupa. They have Mahamudra.

THere is no difference in Mahamudra and Dzogchen. THe difference is only in the way to deliver the thing or describe the thing. If you can understand Mahamudra, you will understand Dzogchen, and vice versa.

If you think Longchenpa should be your teacher, why not? Even if you never have the initiation, it doesn't mean you cannot understand his teaching or Dzogchen.
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!
User avatar
DarwidHalim
 
Posts: 418
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:04 pm


Return to Media

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests

>