Dharma Wheel

catmoon wrote:Swans hm. Looks like the beginning of a great group. All they need now is some singers, a few musicians and a competent sound engineer.

Ok, fine I will concede they have a singer with a range of not less than 5 notes and a composer who has the ability to compose four bars of music, repeat it endlessly and call it a song. Still not impressed, not even a little bit.

At best, a markedly less skilled, diluted version of the Moody Blues.

catmoon wrote:Ok, fine I will concede they have a singer with a range of not less than 5 notes and a composer who has the ability to compose four bars of music, repeat it endlessly and call it a song. Still not impressed, not even a little bit.

Who cares what you think after watching a little bit of 3 videos? I mean, really. First of all, they have 2 singers, both of which have an incredible range. Fact. Second of all, you're blissfully unaware of how orchestrated and complex their music can get.

The Moody Blues comparison was comical, though...



Maybe do a little Googling on the band. Hugely influential, large discography spanning many years and various styles, high ratings from all the most snobbish music rags. Nothing like Moody Blues.

okay I googled up a half dozen tracks from the Swans "masterpiece" Soundtracks for the blind, and all I got was boring compositions of kindergartenish simplicity, one might even say stupidity. I am literally sitting here wondering how people can listen to this crap. But hey, there are actually people out there who like rap, so I guess if this floats your boat, fine. I can't say how thankful I am that it doesn't float mine.

catmoon wrote:okay I googled up a half dozen tracks from the Swans "masterpiece" Soundtracks for the blind, and all I got was boring compositions of kindergartenish simplicity, one might even say stupidity. I am literally sitting here wondering how people can listen to this crap. But hey, there are actually people out there who like rap, so I guess if this floats your boat, fine. I can't say how thankful I am that it doesn't float mine.

Yep, it makes sense to judge a band known for long, sprawling albums spanning a couple decades by a single album you kind of listened to in bits and pieces. It also is worth noting that your comparison to Moody Blues is a good indication not a single drop of this kind of music is something that will appeal to you. If that's the closest you can come up with, I'd say you're a good 20 years older than me and probably would hate most of the bands my generation grew up on. Black Flag? Sonic Youth? Butthole Surfers? You won't find a single Eric Clapton in the bunch; it wasn't our style.

I haven't really listened to Swans in 10 years, primarily because I sort of became resentful of them for making such luxuriously depressing music. For anyone who actually gives the band an honest shot (imo, you haven't), its a classic conundrum typical of all popular music: lure the audience in and feed their head full of crap. But, as a musician and still somewhat a fan of music (though not very passionate about it anymore), I feel obligated to correct a snap judgement like yours. Like Swans, I'm an album guy, not a "pack it all into one hit single" guy. And also like Swans, I like the music to fit whatever the mood/message of the song is. Virtuosity is fine, but not for its own sake and I couldn't really care less about instrumental proficiency or vocal range if the result is well-crafted, creative and original. Also, you'd be hard-pressed to find anything like Knights In White Satin by Swans.

Swans can be described as post-punk, industrial, psychedelic, folk, cinematic and heavily orchestrated, experimental, lush, minimalist, extremely depressive and nearly equally ecstatic. But, you're not going to get it all from one album. Or little snippets of one album.

Hm. I just Googled "swans hits" and there just aren't any. Game over.

catmoon wrote:Hm. I just Googled "swans hits" and there just aren't any. Game over.

If you think so... LOL. By that reasoning Bobby McFerrin is better than John Zorn.

I do believe that if John Zorn isn't very careful, he will produce a hit one of these days. He's certainly proven he can compose and play just about anything, on just about any instrument, at any time he pleases.

OTOH McFerrin does have that hit....

catmoon wrote:I do believe that if John Zorn isn't very careful, he will produce a hit one of these days. He's certainly proven he can compose and play just about anything, on just about any instrument, at any time he pleases.

OTOH McFerrin does have that hit....

Twisted Sister, too!

padma norbu wrote:

catmoon wrote:I do believe that if John Zorn isn't very careful, he will produce a hit one of these days. He's certainly proven he can compose and play just about anything, on just about any instrument, at any time he pleases.

OTOH McFerrin does have that hit....

Twisted Sister, too!

Don't forget the Archies.... now there's some REAL music!

That's one of my favorite songs, actually, so I hope you aren't being sarcastic.

padma norbu wrote:That's one of my favorite songs, actually, so I hope you aren't being sarcastic.

You're trolling me right? Hey bud, c'mon we don't kid around about this kind of thing. It's a troll? Isn't it? Please?

catmoon wrote:

padma norbu wrote:That's one of my favorite songs, actually, so I hope you aren't being sarcastic.

You're trolling me right? Hey bud, c'mon we don't kid around about this kind of thing. It's a troll? Isn't it? Please?

Nope, I like stuff like this quite a lot. Archies, Monkeys, Beach Boys, Yellow Balloon, etc.

I have paired that Archies song with Ohio Express' Yummy Yummy Yummy next to each other on many a mix:



I like a lot of stuff, but still plenty of stuff I can't get into at all... like nu metal and hip hop. This feel-good pop is no worse musically than most rock; people just put it down because it's happy, which is sad and kind of ridiculous, imo.

BTW, for those who love Lemmy (Motorhead is awesome), you might dig this side project. It's all a bunch of rnr oldies. I have it and love it!



It's not supposed to be ironic, either. Lemmy likes this stuff, too.

One thing that annoys me when people have music conversations, is that inevitably one or more people will insult another person merely for liking what she or he likes. I mean really?

"That genre is crap" / "Who would ever listen to something like that??" and all sorts of sarcastic remarks, insults and personal attacks.

There's lots of music I don't like, but there's also lots of music I do like. What I don't like, I tend to not listen to, and if you like something I don't like, I'll have no problem with that at all.

If you don't like something, just say you don't like it and maybe why. But in a mature manner, instead of having to insult the artist, the music, and the people who listens to the music. Doing this only creates resentment.

^ agree... at the end of the day, it's purely subjective. I admit to thinking people must be FRICKEN STUPID at times to like something (hip hop, for example, which reminds me too much of bad reality tv for me to take seriuosly-- and I KNOW these people take it seriously; if it was for a laugh, that would be different), but I always try to keep in mind when talking about music. I've gone from hating to loving a lot of music and vice versa.

Namdrol wrote:

padma norbu wrote:
David Tibet, too. That's not his real last name and he may be influenced by Tibetan Buddhism, but he's more of a Crowley/Spare kinda guy. He fronts Current 93

Yes, yes, yes, and yes.

Tibet was, or at least claims to have been, a student of CR Lama - was, because he's ditched Dharma for some kind of esoteric Catholic Christianity. Or so he says. Horribly pompous kind of Christianity, too.

Also, C93's recent - by which I mean post mid-1990s - stuff is rather disappointing, I'm afraid, and growing worse and worse.

And speaking of (the miraculously good) Swans:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqlX_9Q9ZrQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pure bliss.

Not really OT, but simply irresistible here: Lemmy the old hippie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KGgOFFQxnY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

treehuggingoctopus wrote: And speaking of (the miraculously good) Swans:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqlX_9Q9ZrQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pure bliss.

holy crap, thanks for this link! A whole hour of a swans concert on youtube? Maybe if catmoon checks out the opening lyrics, he'll get a better sense of what Gira was trying to do... he comes up with some doozies... and the way he says it just gets the point across even better, e.g. "this feels good"... so empty, gluttonous, inhumane and yet utterly, disappointingly human.

treehuggingoctopus wrote:Not really OT, but simply irresistible here: Lemmy the old hippie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KGgOFFQxnY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I was expecting Hawkwind. Thanks for furthering my Lemmy education and appreciation. As one of the comments said, "I am coming to the conclusion that there was never NOT a time when Lemmy was a badass."