Kalachakra 2012

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Kalachakra 2012

Postby Tara » Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:11 pm

Image

more images plus video of the webcast.

Regards,
Tara

**********************************************************
Maybe you collect a lot of important writings,
Major texts, personal instructions, private notes, whatever.
If you haven’t practiced, books won’t help you when you die.
Look at the mind – that’s my sincere advice.

**********************************************************
from Longchenpa's 30 Pieces of Sincere Advice

Mors certa — hora incerta
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Re: Kalachakra 2012

Postby Mr. G » Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:43 pm

Awesome. :bow: :buddha1:
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
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Re: Kalachakra 2012

Postby Dharma Atma » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:01 pm

I've been watching the webcast on-line. I liked it, 't was interesting :)
First in life I take part in webcasts. Do you know guys if some other teachers give such teachings? and where to know about the planned ones?
Thank you d'avance.
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Re: Kalachakra 2012

Postby Konchog1 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:41 pm

Dharma Atma wrote:I've been watching the webcast on-line. I liked it, 't was interesting :)
First in life I take part in webcasts. Do you know guys if some other teachers give such teachings? and where to know about the planned ones?
Thank you d'avance.
http://www.shangshunginstitute.net/webcast/index.php There doesn't seem to be a complete calender for it though. Here's a partial one: http://tinyurl.com/7pl4a6r
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
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Re: Kalachakra 2012

Postby Dharma Atma » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:15 pm

Konchog1 wrote:http://www.shangshunginstitute.net/webcast/index.php There doesn't seem to be a complete calender for it though. Here's a partial one: http://tinyurl.com/7pl4a6r

Thank you, I'll look 'em through :)
Webcasts may be very useful. But there are too many questions about them...
For ex, can one say that (s)he's got a Kalachakra initiation having watched the webcast?
Has this webcast initiation the same power as its original tête-à-tête form?
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Re: Kalachakra 2012

Postby Dharma Atma » Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:22 pm

And one more question if you all don't mind. :meditate:
Why (and what way) is Kalachakra connected with time? Kalachakra - a wheel of time, right?
It's very important for me to know, but not tons of words... if you please, in a couple of sentences :) I'm often tired of reading in English too long.
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Re: Kalachakra 2012

Postby Konchog1 » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:58 pm

Dharma Atma wrote:
Konchog1 wrote:http://www.shangshunginstitute.net/webcast/index.php There doesn't seem to be a complete calender for it though. Here's a partial one: http://tinyurl.com/7pl4a6r

Thank you, I'll look 'em through :)
Webcasts may be very useful. But there are too many questions about them...
For ex, can one say that (s)he's got a Kalachakra initiation having watched the webcast?
Has this webcast initiation the same power as its original tête-à-tête form?
There is a thread about that here on Dharmawheel. Basically yes, but it differs from Lama to Lama.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
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Re: Kalachakra 2012

Postby zerwe » Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:24 pm

That pic is absolutely awe inspiring.
Shaun :anjali:
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Re: Kalachakra 2012

Postby conebeckham » Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:08 pm

You cannot obtain Kalachakra Empowerment or Initiation by webcast. You can't obtain ANY full Empowerment via Webcast, though there are some sorts of transmissions that one can get, apparently.
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Re: Kalachakra 2012

Postby Mr. G » Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:30 pm

    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
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Re: Kalachakra 2012

Postby kirtu » Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:32 pm

Dharma Atma wrote:And one more question if you all don't mind. :meditate:
Why (and what way) is Kalachakra connected with time? Kalachakra - a wheel of time, right?


Because all phenomena, including sentient beings, arise in time. It's a container and what it contains thing. In other tantras that address this it's done in terms of space.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

“All beings are Buddhas, but obscured by incidental stains. When those have been removed, there is Buddhahood.”
Hevajra Tantra
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Re: Kalachakra 2012

Postby JinpaRangdrol » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:05 am

conebeckham wrote:You cannot obtain Kalachakra Empowerment or Initiation by webcast. You can't obtain ANY full Empowerment via Webcast, though there are some sorts of transmissions that one can get, apparently.


That's not necessarily true. You can certainly receive Wang over webcast, at least according to many teachers. I don't think you could transmit a major tantra like the Kalachakra, Chakrasamvara, Hevajra, etc. via webcast, but I have received webcast empowerments before. And you can certainly transmit a Lung through it.
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Re: Kalachakra 2012

Postby conebeckham » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:29 am

Lungs, yes.
Full Wangkur via Internet?

I don't think so. Perhaps someone can confirm a specific instance where this has occurred, and we can discuss.
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Re: Kalachakra 2012

Postby JinpaRangdrol » Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:40 am

conebeckham wrote:Lungs, yes.
Full Wangkur via Internet?

I don't think so. Perhaps someone can confirm a specific instance where this has occurred, and we can discuss.


Tsewong Rinpoche transmitted the Opening the Gate to Space Wang via webcast back in October, and will be doing it again in a month or two. It's through the School of Tibetan Healing Chöd.
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Re: Kalachakra 2012

Postby Tsongkhapafan » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:22 am

conebeckham wrote:You cannot obtain Kalachakra Empowerment or Initiation by webcast. You can't obtain ANY full Empowerment via Webcast, though there are some sorts of transmissions that one can get, apparently.


I'm wondering why you wouldn't be able to receive an empowerment by webcast? If you're listening and watching live and fully engaging in the empowerment process with a good motivation, why wouldn't you receive the empowerment? It's just like being physically present.
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Re: Kalachakra 2012

Postby conebeckham » Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:53 pm

I don't have definitive answers-- but I think (though I could be wrong) that for certain Wangkurs, part of the process involves the Vajra Master actually having to "see" the initiatee....I'll leave out more detail, as not appropriate for public forum....though of course, in the case of Kalachakra or other Wangkurs where we're talking about multiple thousands of initiatees, perhaps it's not the case...

I do think certain transmissions can occur via webcast. But I also think some cannot.
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Re: Kalachakra 2012

Postby JinpaRangdrol » Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:22 pm

conebeckham wrote:I don't have definitive answers-- but I think (though I could be wrong) that for certain Wangkurs, part of the process involves the Vajra Master actually having to "see" the initiatee....I'll leave out more detail, as not appropriate for public forum....though of course, in the case of Kalachakra or other Wangkurs where we're talking about multiple thousands of initiatees, perhaps it's not the case...

I do think certain transmissions can occur via webcast. But I also think some cannot.


I'd agree with that. I mean, with Kalachakra, many of the initiates are basically receiving it via webcast, with monitors, etc.
I'm not saying that all empowerments can be transmitted over the Internet, but some absolutely can. To which personal experience can attest. I think it really comes down to the intention of the Vajra Master. I don't think HH intended to transmit Kalachakra over the Internet, and unless everybody who watched it is holding the rather strict samaya around the practice, it would ultimately be detrimental to His holiness' health.
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Re: Kalachakra 2012

Postby Dharma Atma » Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:10 pm

Konchog1 wrote:There is a thread about that here on Dharmawheel. Basically yes, but it differs from Lama to Lama.

Thank you, I've looked through :thumbsup:
There were very good arguments. And one more argument plus (that wasn't mentioned yet): if the teachers do these translations (webcasts), it must mean that it's got some sense and brings profit for people.
kirtu wrote:Because all phenomena, including sentient beings, arise in time. It's a container and what it contains thing. In other tantras that address this it's done in terms of space.

Hmm... interesting information :) It explains many things. Thanks.
But does it mean that Kalachakra has nothing to do with phenomena existing beyond time and space? That was one of my confusions when I asked the question about the connexion of Kalachakra with the time.
Tsongkhapafan wrote:I'm wondering why you wouldn't be able to receive an empowerment by webcast? If you're listening and watching live and fully engaging in the empowerment process with a good motivation, why wouldn't you receive the empowerment? It's just like being physically present.

Being "as if" present, is not the same as being physically present. I think one of arguments is, you can't take part in some ritual acts. For ex, in Kalachakra they use sticks for teeth-health (les cure-dents) during the rite, and a large sum... Maybe it's not enough just to be a witness of the Empowerment... imho :shrug:
conebeckham wrote:I do think certain transmissions can occur via webcast. But I also think some cannot.

Well, does it mean that you wanna say that those teachers who give transmissions for example of Kalachakra through webcasts, they lie to their followers? When they organize the webcast, they must understand many people to have a lot of expectations and to surely be disappointed because of the "fake" initiation... :shrug:
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Re: Kalachakra 2012

Postby kirtu » Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:57 pm

Dharma Atma wrote:
kirtu wrote:Because all phenomena, including sentient beings, arise in time. It's a container and what it contains thing. In other tantras that address this it's done in terms of space.

Hmm... interesting information :) It explains many things. Thanks.
But does it mean that Kalachakra has nothing to do with phenomena existing beyond time and space? That was one of my confusions when I asked the question about the connexion of Kalachakra with the time.


What are you thinking of as existing beyond time and space? In the context of the Kalachakra system, the Kalachakra includes everything. Within tantra, it is it's own complete system.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

“All beings are Buddhas, but obscured by incidental stains. When those have been removed, there is Buddhahood.”
Hevajra Tantra
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Re: Kalachakra 2012

Postby conebeckham » Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:10 pm

Dharma Atma wrote:
conebeckham wrote:I do think certain transmissions can occur via webcast. But I also think some cannot.

Well, does it mean that you wanna say that those teachers who give transmissions for example of Kalachakra through webcasts, they lie to their followers? When they organize the webcast, they must understand many people to have a lot of expectations and to surely be disappointed because of the "fake" initiation... :shrug:


Several years ago, I was in Mirik, India, when HH Gyalwa Karmapa gave a Chenrezig empowerment to thousands of people. The inside of the monastery was full, the courtyard outside was packed, there were people shoulder-to-shoulder in the parking lots, etc. There were Giant Screen TV's and speakers, so that those outside the monastery could see and hear. I was outside, in the parking lot, and in the courtyard at times. Do I think the blessing was greater if one were sitting inside the monastery as opposed to standing in the parking lot? Not at all. But, quite frankly, when I compare this experience to that of spending many days in a row in a small room with a small group of practitioners I know and love, recieving some very precious transmissions, I cannot compare this to being in the courtyard, or inside the walls of the monastery--neither compares to my small group experience. But that is my experience. I cannot say, objectively, the latter experience was more "correct" based on my feelings alone. And I cannot validate or judge the experience of any other participant.

However, objectively, if one knows the process of the empowerments given--can read the Tibetan empowerment manuals, and understand the visualization and ritual procedures--I believe it can be said that some "empowerments" or transmissions can occur in a courtyard, while viewing a Giant Screen TV, while other "empowerments" or transmissions can only take place in close physical proximity to the bestower, and with a limited number of participants. I believe those are objective "facts," outlined in writing in the empowerment texts themselves.
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