Eckart Tolle - master of the park bench

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Re: Eckart Tolle - master of the park bench

Postby Lindama » Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:26 pm

Yes, I think Tolle's description of the pain body is quite good, and tuned to modern life.

Whatever we think, Tolle and many others have contributed to the collective sensibility when no other avenue was available. That contribution matters. Joseph Campbell did it back in the day also.
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Re: Eckart Tolle - master of the park bench

Postby reddust » Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:32 pm

Lindama wrote:Yes, I think Tolle's description of the pain body is quite good, and tuned to modern life.

Whatever we think, Tolle and many others have contributed to the collective sensibility when no other avenue was available. That contribution matters. Joseph Campbell did it back in the day also.


I love Joseph Campbell :heart: His books have helped my paintings so much! I have a video of a lecture he did where a student got out of hand questioning and JC got all wrathful on him. The question was about Buddhism if I remember correctly. I wish I could of gone to some of his lectures before he passed. By the time I found him he had left this world.
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Re: Eckart Tolle - master of the park bench

Postby Lindama » Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:40 pm

on my e-mail today:


Identification With Form

As tribal cultures developed into the ancient civilizations, certain functions began to be allotted to certain people: ruler, priest or priestess, warrior, farmer, merchant, craftsman, laborer, and so on. A class system developed.

Your function, which in most cases you were born into, determined your identity, determined who you were in the eyes of others, as well as in your own eyes. Your function became a role, but it wasn't recognized as a role: It was who you were, or thought you were.

Only rare beings at the time, such as the Buddha or Jesus, saw the ultimate irrelevance of caste or social class, recognized it as identification with form and saw that such identification with the conditioned and the temporal obscured the light of the unconditioned and eternal that shines in each human being.

~ From: A New Earth, by Eckhart Tolle http://www.eckharttolle.com/


sounds familiar
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Re: Eckart Tolle - master of the park bench

Postby dzogchungpa » Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:25 pm

Note that, in the higher tantras, there is talk of a self and an I, even though in the lower teachings the absence of self and the absence of I is what is always proclaimed. - Tony Duff
To educate the educated is notoriously difficult. - Jacques Barzun
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Re: Eckart Tolle - master of the park bench

Postby reddust » Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:33 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:"Evaluating Eckhart" by Gaylon Ferguson:

http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3230&Itemid=247


For example, Tolle tells us that we are moving to a time beyond religion, beyond spiritual ideology and mythology. “We are coming to the end not only of mythologies but also of ideologies and belief systems.” Yet A New Earth includes the invention of a new mythological entity he calls “the pain-body.” “If that sounds to you like a psychic parasite,” he says, “you are right. That's exactly what it is.” Media and the entertainment industry often feed the pain-body. Active pain-bodies can even explain many traffic accidents: “When two drivers with active pain-bodies arrive at an intersection at the same time, the likelihood of an accident is many times greater than under normal circumstances. Unconsciously they both want the accident to happen.” A teaching lineage might be helpful in clarifying the accuracy of this concept—testing it against other authoritative pronouncements and verifying the elaborations of the insight as authentic or not.


:jawdrop: OMG, i've had the same insight, profit from suffering fuels this matrix and the global population is waking up to this fact :namaste:
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Re: Eckart Tolle - master of the park bench

Postby Clarence » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:00 pm

Fruitzilla wrote:
Sherab Rigdrol wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YVjohDXxC0


Somewhat off-topic, but I hope you'll forgive me...

I notice again and again when watching longtime meditators speak, that their breathing is often quite bad.
Like with Rinpoche here, you can easily observe the gasping for air and lifting of the upper part of his chest when breathing in.
Does anybody else notice this and find it worrying?


Maybe because a lot of them are overweight?
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Re: Eckart Tolle - master of the park bench

Postby smcj » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:18 pm

I notice again and again when watching longtime meditators speak, that their breathing is often quite bad.
Like with Rinpoche here, you can easily observe the gasping for air and lifting of the upper part of his chest when breathing in.
Does anybody else notice this and find it worrying?

When the Tibetans came scampering out of the mountains to the lowlands they tended to not need to take deep breaths, having been acclimated to the higher altitudes. This made them susceptible to TB and other lung related diseases. I don't know if their greater lung capacity is genetic at this point, but it could be an issue.
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN
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Re: Eckart Tolle - master of the park bench

Postby padma norbu » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:20 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche doesn't seem to think he's so bad. From "The Tibetan Yogas of Body, Speech and Mind":
The Tibetan spiritual traditions use the term pain body or body of suffering in contrast with the term changeless bliss body. Eckhart Tolle, the renowned author and spiritual teacher, has additionally offered a simple and direct explanation of the pain body that I find inspiring. As the pain body is such an essential concept, I have expanded it to incorporate the notion of pain speech and pain mind.


TWR is a former student of Namkhai Norbu's... I have a question about him if anyone knows the specifics of their relationship, please PM me.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
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Re: Eckart Tolle - master of the park bench

Postby tatpurusa » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:36 pm

padma norbu wrote:TWR is a former student of Namkhai Norbu's... I have a question about him if anyone knows the specifics of their relationship, please PM me.


TWR is not a former student of Namkhai Norbu. He is a student of Sangye Tenzin and Lopon Tenzin Namdak.
He got known with ChNNR when ChNNR came to Lopon Tenzin Namdak in order to study the Zhang Zhung Nyan Gyud.
At that time TWR was living in the house of Lopon Tenzin Namdak.
ChNNR later invited TWR to Italy to his center, where he stayed for some time, giving some teachings and lectures about Bon.
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Re: Eckart Tolle - master of the park bench

Postby padma norbu » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:41 pm

tatpurusa wrote:
padma norbu wrote:TWR is a former student of Namkhai Norbu's... I have a question about him if anyone knows the specifics of their relationship, please PM me.


TWR is not a former student of Namkhai Norbu. He is a student of Sangye Tenzin and Lopon Tenzin Namdak.
He got known with ChNNR when ChNNR came to Lopon Tenzin Namdak in order to study the Zhang Zhung Nyan Gyud.
At that time TWR was living in the house of Lopon Tenzin Namdak.
ChNNR later invited TWR to Italy to his center, where he stayed for some time, giving some teachings and lectures about Bon.


I was told he received some teachings from Namkhai Norbu by a DC member who would know, but I've since lost contact with that member. Receiving teachings is what I mean by student.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
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Re: Eckart Tolle - master of the park bench

Postby tatpurusa » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:47 pm

padma norbu wrote:
tatpurusa wrote:
padma norbu wrote:TWR is a former student of Namkhai Norbu's... I have a question about him if anyone knows the specifics of their relationship, please PM me.


TWR is not a former student of Namkhai Norbu. He is a student of Sangye Tenzin and Lopon Tenzin Namdak.
He got known with ChNNR when ChNNR came to Lopon Tenzin Namdak in order to study the Zhang Zhung Nyan Gyud.
At that time TWR was living in the house of Lopon Tenzin Namdak.
ChNNR later invited TWR to Italy to his center, where he stayed for some time, giving some teachings and lectures about Bon.


I was told he received some teachings from Namkhai Norbu by a DC member who would know, but I've since lost contact with that member. Receiving teachings is what I mean by student.


It is very normal to listen to and recieve some teachings from different lamas in different traditions.
It does not automatically make one to belong to all those lineages. The same way as ChNNR recieving teachings about the Zhang Zhung Nyan Gyud from Lopon Tenzin Namdak does not make him a Bonpo.
The lineage TWR follows is of the Bon masters.

You can PM me if you find it is more appropriate.
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Re: Eckart Tolle - master of the park bench

Postby padma norbu » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:49 pm

Yeah... like I said, I didn't mean he was following Namkhai Norbu's lineage, only that he received some teachings. Do you know about this? If not, then nevermind. The back and forth is getting off topic quickly, so PM me if you still want to continue.
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Re: Eckart Tolle - master of the park bench

Postby tatpurusa » Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:00 pm

padma norbu wrote:Yeah... like I said, I didn't mean he was following Namkhai Norbu's lineage, only that he received some teachings. Do you know about this? If not, then nevermind. The back and forth is getting off topic quickly, so PM me if you still want to continue.


Of course I cannot know what specific teachings he recieved from ChNNR.
I am a disciple of Lopon Tenzin Namdak, but have met and participated in retreats with TWR and ChNNR quite some times too.
As far as I can judge, what TWR teaches follows only the Bon lineage. I have never heard him teaching anything specific to ChNNR.

PS. but I know about what you are referring to .. ;)
Last edited by tatpurusa on Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Eckart Tolle - master of the park bench

Postby padma norbu » Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:03 pm

Cool.

If anyone else knows about their relationship a little better, please PM me. Would greatly appreciate it. Thanks!
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Re: Eckart Tolle - master of the park bench

Postby padma norbu » Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:06 pm

reddust wrote:
dzogchungpa wrote:"Evaluating Eckhart" by Gaylon Ferguson:

http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3230&Itemid=247


For example, Tolle tells us that we are moving to a time beyond religion, beyond spiritual ideology and mythology. “We are coming to the end not only of mythologies but also of ideologies and belief systems.” Yet A New Earth includes the invention of a new mythological entity he calls “the pain-body.” “If that sounds to you like a psychic parasite,” he says, “you are right. That's exactly what it is.” Media and the entertainment industry often feed the pain-body. Active pain-bodies can even explain many traffic accidents: “When two drivers with active pain-bodies arrive at an intersection at the same time, the likelihood of an accident is many times greater than under normal circumstances. Unconsciously they both want the accident to happen.” A teaching lineage might be helpful in clarifying the accuracy of this concept—testing it against other authoritative pronouncements and verifying the elaborations of the insight as authentic or not.


:jawdrop: OMG, i've had the same insight, profit from suffering fuels this matrix and the global population is waking up to this fact :namaste:


First thing that reminded me of was "body thetans" in Scientology... and as much as I believe in aliens, anything resembling Scientology is something I look at askance. :alien: :smile:
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Re: Eckart Tolle - master of the park bench

Postby reddust » Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:19 pm

padma norbu wrote:
First thing that reminded me of was "body thetans" in Scientology... and as much as I believe in aliens, anything resembling Scientology is something I look at askance. :alien: :smile:


Ha! I hadn't thought of aliens, or maybe even demons. I was told there are people who live off of negative energy as well called emotional vampires. But I was thinking more like governments and transnational corporations. You could think of them as non sentient beings, because in a way they are alive and most (not all) profit from some form of suffering which they try and resolve and promote at the same time. I am sure they are all connected on different levels of awareness :thinking:
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Re: Eckart Tolle - master of the park bench

Postby padma norbu » Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:22 pm

tatpurusa wrote:PS. but I know about what you are referring to .. ;)


Why, you son of a... ;)
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Re: Eckart Tolle - master of the park bench

Postby padma norbu » Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:24 pm

reddust wrote:
padma norbu wrote:
First thing that reminded me of was "body thetans" in Scientology... and as much as I believe in aliens, anything resembling Scientology is something I look at askance. :alien: :smile:


Ha! I hadn't thought of aliens, or maybe even demons. I was told there are people who live off of negative energy as well called emotional vampires. But I was thinking more like governments and transnational corporations. You could think of them as non sentient beings, because in a way they are alive and most (not all) profit from some form of suffering which they try and resolve and promote at the same time. I am sure they are all connected on different levels of awareness :thinking:


You are a student of Namkhai Norbu's, aren't you? I've never heard about this pain body idea before anywhere. Googling, I see Tenzin has written about it in his books. It might be a very prevalent idea and I just never noticed. As I've said before, I forget everything constantly. It is fortunate my main practice requires so little thinking. :rolling:
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Re: Eckart Tolle - master of the park bench

Postby reddust » Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:46 pm

padma norbu wrote:
You are a student of Namkhai Norbu's, aren't you? I've never heard about this pain body idea before anywhere. Googling, I see Tenzin has written about it in his books. It might be a very prevalent idea and I just never noticed. As I've said before, I forget everything constantly. It is fortunate my main practice requires so little thinking. :rolling:


I've had the honor of meeting Namkhai Norbu, during retreat with him, but I do not know him very well, you know working with him. I have 3 teacher's and he is one of them. All are Dzogchen, one is a very old Monk, another is a very scholarly older laymen teacher with family, Namkhai Norbu, and the other is young, no family, very-very strong, and I had a lot of contact with him while I lived in Chicago so I could work in a group closely with a teacher. Right now I am out in the woods, literally :namaste:

By the way I like your threads and all your questions. I hope this isn't going off topic because it's interesting Eckart Tolle has contact with Tibetan Buddhism.

I have to read what exactly is the pain body. This link goes into why he thinks Vajrayana is a great tool dealing with the Pain Body, gets complicated and I do not know enough to critique Beyond The Power Of Nowid
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Re: Eckart Tolle - master of the park bench

Postby dzogchungpa » Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:46 am

The thing Tenzin Wangyal was connecting with Tolle's idea of the pain body is this:
http://rywiki.tsadra.org/index.php/sdug_bsngal_gyi_phung_po,
duḥkha-skandha in Sanskrit, I think.

If you go here: http://www.calameo.com/books/000039257ea5fbb9806b9, hit 'read the publication'
and search for 'Tolle' you can read the section where he discusses this.
Note that, in the higher tantras, there is talk of a self and an I, even though in the lower teachings the absence of self and the absence of I is what is always proclaimed. - Tony Duff
To educate the educated is notoriously difficult. - Jacques Barzun
སརྦ་དྷརྨ་དྷཱ་ཏུ་ཨཱཏྨ་ཀོ་྅ཧཾ༔
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