"pre-buddhist" (in my life) thinkers who helped me think

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"pre-buddhist" (in my life) thinkers who helped me think

Postby padma norbu » Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:08 am

This guy might be the first guy who really made me think there was some sort of path accessible to all (and maybe it wasn't a specific path at all)

"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
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Re: "pre-buddhist" (in my life) thinkers who helped me think

Postby padma norbu » Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:38 am

I wrote "in my life," but I meant for it to be an interactive thread (ie. in your life, too). :thanks:
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
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Re: "pre-buddhist" (in my life) thinkers who helped me think

Postby KonchokZoepa » Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:52 pm

many years ago i enjoyed robert anton wilson's '' maybe logic '' documentary, it was good at that time but it has no room in my ideology anymore really. it seems now irrelevant and meaningless. offers but the essenceless.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: "pre-buddhist" (in my life) thinkers who helped me think

Postby futerko » Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:06 pm

I've got to mention Colin Wilson here (who died recently) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Outsider_(Colin_Wilson)

Also Yi-Fu Tuan, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yi-Fu_Tuan - I read "Space and Place" when studying geography at 15 and it started me on a path of discovery that would seem to culminate in the manifestation of the 5 dhyani buddhas in real space.
Last edited by futerko on Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
we cannot get rid of God because we still believe in grammar - Nietzsche
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Re: "pre-buddhist" (in my life) thinkers who helped me think

Postby padma norbu » Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:47 pm

KonchokZoepa wrote:many years ago i enjoyed robert anton wilson's '' maybe logic '' documentary, it was good at that time but it has no room in my ideology anymore really. it seems now irrelevant and meaningless. offers but the essenceless.


Hmm... I tend to feel like you, although I'm not sure what "offers but the essenceless" means. He was a great aggregator of arcane knowledge and, like I said, he helped me think. I can't imagine getting very far with his methods, basically a metaparadigm of free belief, but he seemed to have gotten something out of whatever he was doing. Too technical for me... similar to the methods espoused by Peter Carroll and Franz Bardon, where you master mental awareness like a science experiment. Extremely hard, imo. But, if not for Wilson, I doubt I would have ever found my way to Buddhism.
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Re: "pre-buddhist" (in my life) thinkers who helped me think

Postby padma norbu » Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:51 pm

futerko wrote:I've got to mention Colin Wilson here (who died recently) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Outsider_(Colin_Wilson)

Also Yi-Fu Tuan, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yi-Fu_Tuan - I read "Space and Place" when studying geography at 15 and it started me on a path of discovery that would seem to culminate in the manifestation of the 5 dhyani buddhas in real space.


Not familiar with Yi-Fu Tuan, but Colin Wilson's "The Occult" was a major turning point for me, too.
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Re: "pre-buddhist" (in my life) thinkers who helped me think

Postby smcj » Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:01 pm

He wasn't pre-buddhist, as I'd already been a Buddhist for a long time before I discovered him, but Bill Wilson was influential to me nonetheless. Besides the simplicity and elegance of his approach, seeing that a bunch of really screwed up unsophisticated people (sober 12 step drunks and addicts) could actually make progress on the spiritual path gave me the courage to try Dharma more seriously. Up until then I thought it would be too hard and I was afraid of failure.

My old teacher credited Bach and Shakespeare as his pre-buddhist influences. He was studying the B-Minor Mass and came to the conclusion the Bach was "praying". So he got into religion as an activity--prayer--as opposed to a philosophy or belief. He said Shakespeare was on the cusp of Dharma, that insight into life beyond that level required Dharma.
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN
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Re: "pre-buddhist" (in my life) thinkers who helped me think

Postby padma norbu » Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:24 pm

smcj wrote:He wasn't pre-buddhist, as I'd already been a Buddhist for a long time before I discovered him, but Bill Wilson was influential to me nonetheless. Besides the simplicity and elegance of his approach, seeing that a bunch of really screwed up unsophisticated people (sober 12 step drunks and addicts) could actually make progress on the spiritual path gave me the courage to try Dharma more seriously. Up until then I thought it would be too hard and I was afraid of failure.

My old teacher credited Bach and Shakespeare as his pre-buddhist influences. He was studying the B-Minor Mass and came to the conclusion the Bach was "praying". So he got into religion as an activity--prayer--as opposed to a philosophy or belief. He said Shakespeare was on the cusp of Dharma, that insight into life beyond that level required Dharma.


Very interesting. Bach and Mozart are two that give me a similar feeling that they were spiritual in an esoteric sort of way. Bach was deeply religious there is some evidence that he may have been Rosicrucian, but Mozart was definitely a Freemason. Speaking of Freemasons, there is good evidence, imo, that Shakespeare was actually Francis Bacon, a modern day something-or-other if there ever was one. A Rosicrucian who was really up to something, apparently trying to advance humanity, I guess. There was a great 2 hour documentary on Youtube about Bacon, but it seems to be removed now. If you saw what this guy was up to and all the evidence presented, I don't think you'd have any trouble believing he was Shakespeare. I've speculated about it ever since I got Manly P. Hall's "The Secret Teachings of All Ages" where he has a chapter dedicated to this idea, but seeing the documentary really convinced me.

Mozart the Mason CD:
http://www.amazon.com/Matt-Haimovitz-Mo ... B000CC4W4Q

Mozart, Mazonic Influence On His Music (book):
http://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Freemason- ... 1594771286

PS, I remember some time ago on these forums there was a guy who made a bold statement about Rosicrucians being evil and a plot to enslave the world or something. I don't know how he got this idea or what his proof is, but I really don't think so. Unless he was a high-ranking Rosicrucian or something at one point and privy to the secret plans.
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Re: "pre-buddhist" (in my life) thinkers who helped me think

Postby padma norbu » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:40 pm

RAW also brought me into contact with Austin Spare and all the sorts of people who came afterward who were influenced by Spare.

I just found a thread that I found somewhat interesting comparing Spare to Dzogchen. Karen's posts are what I enjoyed here: http://tribes.tribe.net/anarchodorje111 ... 2eb19de7db
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
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Re: "pre-buddhist" (in my life) thinkers who helped me think

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:31 pm

I was into existentialism prior to becoming Buddhist, in fact long before that - in my teens, appropriate I know. I've probably read The Plague 50 times, Exile And The Kingdom is one of my favorites too. Camus to this day is one of my favorite authors. I have to say The Myth of Sisyphus is probably what got me into Buddhism, as shortly after reading and thinking about it for a bit, I read Turning The Wheel of Dharma Sutta for the first time. In an odd way, they are very complimentary, as Buddhism offers a way for Sisyphus to stop having to push the rock up the hill..or at least, grandly alter his perception of it...existentialism is really the natural starting point of Dharma heh.

I also like RAW and all kinds of other weird stuff, i've even got a signed copy of Timothy Leary's Psychedelic Experience Based on The Tibetan Book of The Dead around somewhere. I can't say any of that stuff got me into Dharma though..it was being convinced of the First Noble Truth - perhaps due to reading on existentialism - that drew me to it.
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is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: "pre-buddhist" (in my life) thinkers who helped me think

Postby padma norbu » Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:46 pm

Johnny Dangerous, I was really into existentialism, too. One book that really changed my life was Nausea. It prompted me to get Camus and The Myth of Sisyphus. Oddly, I just noticed that particular book on the odd bookshelf the other day when I was looking for RAW's Prometheus Rising. I actually realized that I bought it but never read it. For some reason, I have a mental block about it because I think I know what it's about (a guy pushing a rock up a hill for eternity), but I really need to get over it because I actually have no idea what it's about. I also have The Stranger and can't recall if I read that one, either. Hmmm.
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Re: "pre-buddhist" (in my life) thinkers who helped me think

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:21 pm

padma norbu wrote:Johnny Dangerous, I was really into existentialism, too. One book that really changed my life was Nausea. It prompted me to get Camus and The Myth of Sisyphus. Oddly, I just noticed that particular book on the odd bookshelf the other day when I was looking for RAW's Prometheus Rising. I actually realized that I bought it but never read it. For some reason, I have a mental block about it because I think I know what it's about (a guy pushing a rock up a hill for eternity), but I really need to get over it because I actually have no idea what it's about. I also have The Stranger and can't recall if I read that one, either. Hmmm.



The Stranger is great too...I really like the Story "The Renegade" in Exile and The Kingdom, it's one of his oddest ones, it's almost classifiable as fantasy or something heh. Very Dark, and I remember it leaving a real impression.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: "pre-buddhist" (in my life) thinkers who helped me think

Postby padma norbu » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:33 pm

Thanks for the recommendations. I always need new stuff to read for the train.
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Re: "pre-buddhist" (in my life) thinkers who helped me think

Postby greentara » Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:15 am

Jean Paul Sartre also impacted on me but strangly enough the rather earthy Henry Miller made an impression on me in his trilogy Sexes, Plexus and Nexus or was it Black Spring? Anyway there were a few pages where he described meeting a youth who knew, he knew the truth! Well I read and reread those few pages many times trying to squeeze more out of the scanty piece of information offered, all to no avail. I was very young and wanted to know what he knew and how did he know....it had a a fleeting scent of freedom, so tantalising.
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Re: "pre-buddhist" (in my life) thinkers who helped me think

Postby padma norbu » Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:49 pm

greentara wrote:Jean Paul Sartre also impacted on me but strangly enough the rather earthy Henry Miller made an impression on me in his trilogy Sexes, Plexus and Nexus or was it Black Spring? Anyway there were a few pages where he described meeting a youth who knew, he knew the truth! Well I read and reread those few pages many times trying to squeeze more out of the scanty piece of information offered, all to no avail. I was very young and wanted to know what he knew and how did he know....it had a a fleeting scent of freedom, so tantalising.


That's funny, sounds like a sly way of writing. I'll have to check that out, too. I have been watching old cartoons and reading old children's stories recently and realizing just how much they insinuate because they don't know the answers, but to kids it seems totally realistic and awe-inspiring. I remember as a kid trying to draw comic books but getting discouraged when it came to writing plot details because I didn't know so much about everything in the world.
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