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Buddhists atheists ? - Dhamma Wheel

Buddhists atheists ?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Nikaya35
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Buddhists atheists ?

Postby Nikaya35 » Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:00 am

I don't understand those so called Buddhists that claim that they followed the original Buddha teachings ( the Nikayas ) and believe that the Buddha never teach or think that Karma and rebirth aren't true . Some think that the Buddha was agnostic about the issue , that Karma and rebirth are superstitions and speculations. I think that is very dishonest to make that claims " based" in the Nikayas . In many sutras of the 4 Nikayas the Buddha talk about literal Karma and rebirth many times . To me is clear that both doctrines are part of the Buddha teachings .
Last edited by Nikaya35 on Sat Jul 16, 2011 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ben
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Re: Buddhists atheists ?

Postby Ben » Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:25 am

Thank you maitreya31 for communicating your conviction that the Buddha taught literal rebirth and kamma.
Having indicated tht you believe the Buddha taught literal rebirth and kamma, do you have a question (perhaps something different to that already covered in the Great Rebirth Debate: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=41)?
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

Nikaya35
Posts: 103
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Re: Buddhists atheists ?

Postby Nikaya35 » Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:46 am


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Ben
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Location: kanamaluka

Re: Buddhists atheists ?

Postby Ben » Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:47 am

No worries and have fun!
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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bodom
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Re: Buddhists atheists ?

Postby bodom » Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:49 am

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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Ben
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Re: Buddhists atheists ?

Postby Ben » Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:50 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Lazy_eye
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Location: Laurel, MD
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Re: Buddhists atheists ?

Postby Lazy_eye » Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:29 am


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Ben
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Re: Buddhists atheists ?

Postby Ben » Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:34 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Lazy_eye
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Re: Buddhists atheists ?

Postby Lazy_eye » Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:45 am


plwk
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Re: Buddhists atheists ?

Postby plwk » Sat Jul 16, 2011 5:11 am


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ground
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Re: Buddhists atheists ?

Postby ground » Sat Jul 16, 2011 5:21 am


Platypus
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Re: Buddhists atheists ?

Postby Platypus » Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:36 am

Firstly to clarify atheism its a lack of a belief in a god, you can believe in ghosts fairies, and in invisible pink unicorns, and still be an atheist, you can believe in rebirth and still be atheist. I'm not sure where brahmas and devas fall on the deity thing.

Anyway personally I am a sceptic its not that I don't want to believe these things, its that I can't. I tried and can't, the only reality I could believe in is naturalistic pantheism, in the words of Ricky gervais I can't believe in what I don't.

I left Buddhism a while ago but was browsing ATI and the good ol kalama sutta for some discussion, anyway I found this section as part of it. I later found out that it was called the four solaces.

"

17. "The disciple of the Noble Ones, Kalamas, who has such a hate-free mind, such a malice-free mind, such an undefiled mind, and such a purified mind, is one by whom four solaces are found here and now.
"'Suppose there is a hereafter and there is a fruit, result, of deeds done well or ill. Then it is possible that at the dissolution of the body after death, I shall arise in the heavenly world, which is possessed of the state of bliss.' This is the first solace found by him.
"'Suppose there is no hereafter and there is no fruit, no result, of deeds done well or ill. Yet in this world, here and now, free from hatred, free from malice, safe and sound, and happy, I keep myself.' This is the second solace found by him.
"'Suppose evil (results) befall an evil-doer. I, however, think of doing evil to no one. Then, how can ill (results) affect me who do no evil deed?' This is the third solace found by him.
"'Suppose evil (results) do not befall an evil-doer. Then I see myself purified in any case.' This is the fourth solace found by him.
"The disciple of the Noble Ones, Kalamas, who has such a hate-free mind, such a malice-free mind, such an undefiled mind, and such a purified mind, is one by whom, here and now, these four solaces are found."

So the second solace felt like the Buddha was talking to me, cos practicing Buddhism does improve me as a person. I wrote a whole essay as a student nurse about how samadhi has scientific studies backing it up too and increases the size of the amygdala.

So yes I feel as far as the Buddha was concerned you can follow the dhamma and still be a sceptic. However I know he taught literal continuation/rebirth, I don't agree with bachelor on that. I'm even in the process of finding a group in my area.

Will.

As sceptical mind as you will find.

Sanghamitta
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Location: By the River Thames near London.

Re: Buddhists atheists ?

Postby Sanghamitta » Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:41 am

Stephen Batchelor does not deny that the Buddha taught Rebirth. He says that he, Batchelor has no personal knowledge of Rebirth and so puts it to one side. Which seems to be in my eyes very honest.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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Aloka
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Re: Buddhists atheists ?

Postby Aloka » Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:22 am


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Ben
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Re: Buddhists atheists ?

Postby Ben » Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:32 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Lazy_eye
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Location: Laurel, MD
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Re: Buddhists atheists ?

Postby Lazy_eye » Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:15 pm


Sanghamitta
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Location: By the River Thames near London.

Re: Buddhists atheists ?

Postby Sanghamitta » Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:18 pm

We were near neighbours of his before he moved to France, and joined many conversations on many subjects and he was/is never black and white.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

Nikaya35
Posts: 103
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:36 am

Re: Buddhists atheists ?

Postby Nikaya35 » Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:14 pm

Last edited by Nikaya35 on Sat Jul 16, 2011 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Platypus
Posts: 21
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Location: York, UK

Re: Buddhists atheists ?

Postby Platypus » Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:48 pm


Nikaya35
Posts: 103
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:36 am

Re: Buddhists atheists ?

Postby Nikaya35 » Sat Jul 16, 2011 5:19 pm



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