YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

Over confidence in our understanding of Suttas - Page 5 - Dhamma Wheel

Over confidence in our understanding of Suttas

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Freawaru
Posts: 489
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:26 pm

Re: Over confidence in our understanding of Suttas

Postby Freawaru » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:18 am


Vossaga (Element)

Re: Over confidence in our understanding of Suttas

Postby Vossaga (Element) » Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:54 am


User avatar
altar
Posts: 251
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:24 pm
Location: Great Barrington, MA

Re: Over confidence in our understanding of Suttas

Postby altar » Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:59 pm

Jack,
I agree with your statement about dukkha being the totality of existence, or at least relate to it. But what about pasaddhi. Is there room for the developement of tranquility, the fading away of lust, without contemplation, with only meditation and passivity, and then also contemplation, or must the two always go together?
From the suttas and readings, and what seems most natural and intuitive, there seems 4 approaches. That is insight leads to samadhi and wisdom, samadhi leads to insight and wisdom, the two go hand in hand like two legs walking, and the two are cultivating simultaneously. (And there is the one who after the disappearance or overcoming of confusion about the dhamma makes headway).
But for the third subject (the two go hand in hand), its sort of like the difference between jhanas and insight, or the ariyan or supramundane jhanas and vipassana jhanas, versus the regular ones... That is, just because one has an analytical, even insightful knowledge and err... urgency, there must still be some room for pure tranquility meditation.
The question is, does one who abandons or puts aside their urgency to develop pasaddhi stray from the path, or the past?
There is a series of talks given by Ajahn Pasanno given one rains retreat at abahyagiri on urgency, or horror, and passadhi. I only listened to the first 1 or 2, but it is very scholarly. Nonetheless I may give it a try again.
Will see what you have to say.

User avatar
daverupa
Posts: 5980
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: Over confidence in our understanding of Suttas

Postby daverupa » Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:55 pm


PeterB
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: Over confidence in our understanding of Suttas

Postby PeterB » Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:12 pm

What the Suttas give are clear guidelines for recognising Right View by recognising the fruits thereof.

They are not a means for attaining said fruits.

User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Over confidence in our understanding of Suttas

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:05 pm


User avatar
BlackBird
Posts: 1925
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:07 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Over confidence in our understanding of Suttas

Postby BlackBird » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:12 pm

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

User avatar
BlackBird
Posts: 1925
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:07 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Over confidence in our understanding of Suttas

Postby BlackBird » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:29 pm

Last edited by BlackBird on Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

Vossaga (Element)

Re: Over confidence in our understanding of Suttas

Postby Vossaga (Element) » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:40 pm


PeterB
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: Over confidence in our understanding of Suttas

Postby PeterB » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:52 pm


Vossaga (Element)

Re: Over confidence in our understanding of Suttas

Postby Vossaga (Element) » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:23 am

Last edited by Vossaga (Element) on Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

Vossaga (Element)

Re: Over confidence in our understanding of Suttas

Postby Vossaga (Element) » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:44 am


User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Over confidence in our understanding of Suttas

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:28 am


User avatar
legolas
Posts: 235
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:58 am

Re: Over confidence in our understanding of Suttas

Postby legolas » Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:57 am

It is called a path for a very good reason. The suttas show us the path to follow. What we find at the end of the path is freedom. The suttas are there to guide us on this path and should become more comprehensible as we progress. We have to engage our intellect & discernment otherwise, how do we begin?

User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Over confidence in our understanding of Suttas

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:27 am


User avatar
legolas
Posts: 235
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:58 am

Re: Over confidence in our understanding of Suttas

Postby legolas » Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:19 am


User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Over confidence in our understanding of Suttas

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:26 am

Hi Legolas,

Sure, agree completely. I compare my experience and what my teachers tell me with Suttas and I have seen no contradictions so far. And in my experience it is rare for a teacher to tell me what to expect...

:anjali:
Mike

Vossaga (Element)

Re: Over confidence in our understanding of Suttas

Postby Vossaga (Element) » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:57 am


User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Over confidence in our understanding of Suttas

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:44 am

Hi Vossaga,

I don't think I really disagree with anything you say. However, the point I was trying to make is that as far as I can tell all of us have studied various suttas, supplemented by various amounts of ancient and modern commentary and personal interactions with various teachers.

We have all attempted to put it what we have learned into practise. We all genuinely feel that we are practising what the Buddha was pointing to and are all doing the best that we can each personally do to make sense of the message and apply it.

The great thing about a Forum such as this is that we can rapidly access knowledge from others who have more experience, experience with different teachers, different tradition, different reading material. Many times that has saved me quite a lot of time and effort, and I am very grateful for this.

However, I find it extremely disheartening when some members insist that if I doesn't subscribe to the particular understanding of the Dhamma that they have at their current state of development then I am practising wrongly. Of course, it is quite possible (perhaps even likely) that they are correct, and that I will change my mind in the future. In fact, since I am not yet an Ariya, I expect my view and my understanding of the Suttas to change as my practise deepens. So telling me that my current practise and view is wrong is at best a gross oversimplification, because the views and understandings are not static, but developing.

I have never encountered this attitude in real life. When I meet people who follow different methods or teachers we exchange notes and discuss our experiences. Different teachers will express their opinion on what they think will work best, but in real life I've never been told that I'll be wasting my time unless I subscribe to one out of the several possible interpretations of Dependent Origination.

[Of course, in addition, a good teacher will evaluate where the student is and what s/he needs at that point and not confuse him/her with things that are over her/his head...]

In summary, I'm please that we can exchange ideas on this Forum. I'm just confused why some insist that it is crucial for others to immediately change their ideas to match theirs.

:anjali:
Mike

User avatar
legolas
Posts: 235
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:58 am

Re: Over confidence in our understanding of Suttas

Postby legolas » Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:09 am



Return to “General Theravāda discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine