Simple question about Pure Lands
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:39 am
Do they cease to exist once all sentient beings reach the state of Buddhahood? That is if there are a finite number of sentient beings.
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http://www.e-sangha.com/alphone/shurangama.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;The Buddha said, "Since you(Purna) explain it that way, why do you ask if the clear emptiness of wonderful enlightenment can once again give rise to the mountains, the rivers, and the great earth? Consider a piece of ore containing gold and other metals mixed together. Once the pure gold is extracted it will never become ore again. Consider wood that has burnt to ashes; it will never become wood again. The Bodhi and Nirvana of all Buddhas, the Tathagatas, are the same way.
everything is the way it is. as Master Hui Neng said, when enlightened, all sentient beings are Buddhas; when deluded, all Buddhas are sentient beings."Purna, you also asked whether the natures of water and fire would not destroy each other if the natures of earth, water, fire, and wind were all perfectly fused and pervaded the Dharma Realm, and whether space and the great earth would not be incompatible if both pervaded the Dharma Realm.
"Purna, consider space: its substance is not the various phenomena, yet that does not prevent all phenomena from being included within it. How do we know that? Purna, empty space is bright on a sunny day, and dark when the sky is cloudy. It moves when the wind rises, it is fresh when the sky clears. It is turbid and hazy when the weather is foul, it is obscure when a dust storm breaks out. It casts a bright reflection on a pool of clear water. Do you think these conditioned phenomena come into existence at different places? Are they created from these conditions themselves or is their origin in space. If they arise from these conditions, Purna, then on a sunny day, since the sun is bright, all worlds of the ten directions should take on the form of the sun. Then why, on a sunny day do we see the round sun in the sky? If space is bright, space itself should shine. Then why, when there is a covering of clouds and fog, is no light evident? You should know that the brightness is not the sun, nor space nor other than the space or the sun. Contemplate how phenomena are ultimately false and cannot be verified. They are like flowers conjured up in space that cannot bear fruit. Why, then, investigate how such phenomena appear and disappear? Contemplate how the nature is ultimately truth and is solely the wonderful enlightened brightness. That wonderful enlightened bright mind originally was neither water nor fire. Why, then, ask about incompatibility?
"The truly wonderful enlightened brightness is the same way. You recognize space, and space appears. Recognizing earth, water, fire, and wind, each will appear. If all are recognized, all will appear. How can they all appear? Purna, consider the sun's reflection as it appears in a single body of water. Two people gaze at it, both at the same time. Then one person walks east and the other walks west. Each person, still looking at the water will see a sun go along with him, one to the east, one to the west, while there seems to be no fixed direction for the movement of the sun's reflection. Don't belabor the question and ask, 'If there is one sun, how can it follow both people? Or if the sun is double, why does only one appear in the sky?' This is just revolving in falseness, because such things cannot be proven.
Don't know about definitive answers but we can gain a better understanding from sutras.Astus wrote:Buddha-lands exist because of the buddhas who created them, just as the world exist because of people's karma. Now the questions are whether buddhas live eternally or not, and sentient beings are infinite or not. But is there a definitive answer?
Yes, on the absolute level we are all Buddhas, but that's not what I'm talking about.LastLegend wrote:All is Buddhas, and all are sentient beings. What is meant by sentient beings? Perhaps the term "sentient" (meaning "alive") from my understanding through learning teachings in Vietnamese is quite misleading. It should be "all beings" as all are causes and conditions.
I don't think our grasping mind (of what exists or not exist) can understand?
What are you talking about?Ryoto wrote:Yes, on the absolute level we are all Buddhas, but that's not what I'm talking about.LastLegend wrote:All is Buddhas, and all are sentient beings. What is meant by sentient beings? Perhaps the term "sentient" (meaning "alive") from my understanding through learning teachings in Vietnamese is quite misleading. It should be "all beings" as all are causes and conditions.
I don't think our grasping mind (of what exists or not exist) can understand?
Nevermind.LastLegend wrote:What are you talking about?Ryoto wrote:Yes, on the absolute level we are all Buddhas, but that's not what I'm talking about.LastLegend wrote:All is Buddhas, and all are sentient beings. What is meant by sentient beings? Perhaps the term "sentient" (meaning "alive") from my understanding through learning teachings in Vietnamese is quite misleading. It should be "all beings" as all are causes and conditions.
I don't think our grasping mind (of what exists or not exist) can understand?
I said all beings are Buddhas. Not just sentient beings.
would the last person out please turn off the lights?
Nothing arises and nothing ceases.Ryoto wrote:Do they cease to exist once all sentient beings reach the state of Buddhahood? That is if there are a finite number of sentient beings.
yea i understand that you are referring to emptiness. shurangama sutra on the other hand is referring to en"light"enment, that all are already Buddhas(lights on).catmoon wrote:there never was a light or a switch.
it should be refering to the Illusion of the Ego .Nosta wrote:Can you help me to understand better that sentence (right before this post)?
Does it mean that its impossible to save ALL the beings? That such task will never really be acomplishied? And if so, why? It wasnt clear for me.
Thanks.
we cannot say it will never be acomplishied as it will mean that we disagree on Impersonality, One of the Three Universal characteristics of existence taught by the Buddha. nor can we say it will be acomplishied as it will mean that we disagree on Impermanence and suffering, the other two of the Three Universal characteristics of existence taught be Buddha.25. The Illusion of the Ego
Let no one say the Tathagata cherishes the idea "I must liberate all living beings." In reality there are no living beings to be liberated by the Tathagata. If there were living beings for the Tathagata to liberate, he would partake of the idea of selfhood, personality, ego entity and separate individuality.
http://www.selfdiscoveryportal.com/cmDi ... tra.htm#25" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There is a very basic fallacy that believes and assumes that enlightenmant is death, or that it equals death, or that nirvana means annihilation.Nosta wrote:Can you help me to understand better that sentence (right before this post)?
Does it mean that its impossible to save ALL the beings? That such task will never really be acomplishied? And if so, why? It wasnt clear for me.
Thanks.