How do you experience PL?

Re: How do you experience PL?

Postby sinweiy » Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:00 am

I think the so called "real Dharma" may be "proper" but not that practical in these age, if you really think of it. I mean how many people can really go into such a lifestyle?
_/\_
Amituofo!

"Enlightenment is to turn around and see MY own mistake, Other's mistake is also my mistake. Others are right even if they are wrong. i'm wrong even if i'm right. " - Master Chin Kung
User avatar
sinweiy
 
Posts: 271
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:18 am
Location: Singapore

Re: How do you experience PL?

Postby plwk » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:02 am

I think the so called "real Dharma" may be "proper" but not that practical in these age, if you really think of it. I mean how many people can really go into such a lifestyle?
Funny huh on being 'practical'? Those who have eyes, but do not see. Those who have ears but do not hear. One sees and hears what one wants, no?
Spiritual blindness and deafness is not an external phenomena. It is most of the time an internal volition, no?

Practical? How is 'practicality' defined these days?
When some people encounter a system of spiritual practice with the mentality of an upturn, leaky or a filthy vessel, what were they expecting practically?
When some people won't mind spending money on buying meat but give excuses when asked on donations for animal liberation, what were they expecting practically?
When some people are only looking for a McValue Religion deal or a religious aspirin quickie, what were they expecting practically?
When some people who would think that 10 minutes in a week for any kind of practice is worst than a binding prenuptial agreement, what were they expecting practically?
When some people who think that spirituality is a retirement/leisure hobby or a passing lifestyle fad or a mere forum debate, what were they expecting practically?
When some people who spend their time collecting mountains of head knowledge but not awakening & realisation, what were they expecting practically?

Not that practical or just plain unpractical unwillingness? 'Real Dharma' or just plain drama?
The late Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche said it so aptly here as quoted by Jack Kornfield...so apt that I pasted this advice in my own heart...
http://www.lycaeum.org/~sputnik/Misc/buddhism.html
“My advice to you is not to undertake the spiritual path. It is too difficult, too long, and is too demanding.
I suggest you ask for your money back, and go home.
This is not a picnic. It is really going to ask everything of you. So, it is best not to begin.
However, if you do begin, it is best to finish.”
plwk
 
Posts: 2733
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:41 am

Re: How do you experience PL?

Postby sinweiy » Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:06 am

believe or not believe, that say in Kalama Sutta:

The Kalama Sutta states:
Do not go upon what has been acquired by repeated hearing,
nor upon tradition,
nor upon rumor,
nor upon what is in a scripture,
nor upon surmise,
nor upon an axiom,
nor upon specious reasoning,
nor upon a bias towards a notion that has been pondered over,
nor upon another's seeming ability,
nor upon the consideration, "The monk is our teacher." [emphasis added]
Kalamas, when you yourselves know: "These things are good; these things are not blamable; these things are praised by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to benefit and happiness," enter on and abide in them.'
:namaste:
_/\_
Amituofo!

"Enlightenment is to turn around and see MY own mistake, Other's mistake is also my mistake. Others are right even if they are wrong. i'm wrong even if i'm right. " - Master Chin Kung
User avatar
sinweiy
 
Posts: 271
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:18 am
Location: Singapore

Re: How do you experience PL?

Postby plwk » Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:53 am

Wonderful sinweiy... read that with these...

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
"In the same way, in the course of the future there will be monks who won't listen when discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — are being recited. They won't lend ear, won't set their hearts on knowing them, won't regard these teachings as worth grasping or mastering. But they will listen when discourses that are literary works — the works of poets, elegant in sound, elegant in rhetoric, the work of outsiders, words of disciples — are recited. They will lend ear and set their hearts on knowing them. They will regard these teachings as worth grasping & mastering.

"In this way the disappearance of the discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — will come about.
"Thus you should train yourselves: 'We will listen when discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — are being recited. We will lend ear, will set our hearts on knowing them, will regard these teachings as worth grasping & mastering.' That's how you should train yourselves."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
"Ananda, it's not proper for a disciple to follow after the Teacher to hear discourses, verses, or catechisms.
Why is that? For a long time, Ananda, have you listened to the teachings, retained them, discussed them, accumulated them, examined them with your mind, and penetrated them well in terms of your views. But as for talk that is scrupulous, conducive to release of awareness, and leads exclusively to disenchantment, dispassion, cessation, calm, direct knowledge, self-awakening, & Unbinding — i.e., talk on modesty, contentment, seclusion, non-entanglement, arousing persistence, virtue, concentration, discernment, release, and the knowledge & vision of release: It's for the sake of hearing talk of this sort that it is proper for a disciple to follow after the Teacher as if yoked to him.

"Therefore, Ananda, engage with me in friendliness, and not in opposition. That will be for your long-term well-being & happiness.
"And how do students engage with the teacher in opposition and not in friendliness? There is the case where a teacher teaches the Dhamma to his students sympathetically, seeking their well-being, out of sympathy: 'This is for your well-being; this is for your happiness.' His disciples do not listen or lend ear or apply their minds to gnosis. Turning aside, they stray from the Teacher's message. This is how students engage with the teacher as opponents and not as friends.

"And how do students engage with the teacher in friendliness and not in opposition? There is the case where a teacher teaches the Dhamma to his students sympathetically, seeking their well-being, out of sympathy: 'This is for your well-being; this is for your happiness.' His disciples listen, lend ear, & apply their minds to gnosis. Not turning aside, they don't stray from the Teacher's message. This is how students engage with the teacher as friends and not as opponents.

"Therefore, Ananda, engage with me in friendliness, and not in opposition. That will be for your long-term well-being & happiness.
"I won't hover over you like a potter over damp, unbaked clay goods. Scolding again & again, I will speak. Urging you on again & again, I will speak.
Whatever is of essential worth will remain."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
"It is true, Kesi, that it's not proper for a Tathagata to take life.
But if a tamable person doesn't submit either to a mild training or to a harsh training or to a mild & harsh training, then the Tathagata doesn't regard him as being worth speaking to or admonishing. His knowledgeable fellows in the holy life don't regard him as being worth speaking to or admonishing.
This is what it means to be totally destroyed in the Doctrine & Discipline, when the Tathagata doesn't regard one as being worth speaking to or admonishing, and one's knowledgeable fellows in the holy life don't regard one as being worth speaking to or admonishing."
http://buddhism.vipassati.ch/nikaya/mn- ... a-to-subha
“Here, student, I am one who speaks after making an analysis; I do not speak one-sidedly.
I do not praise the wrong way of practice on the part either of a householder or one gone forth; for whether it be a householder or one gone forth, one who has entered on the wrong way of practice, by reason of his wrong way of practice, is not accomplishing the true way, the Dhamma that is wholesome.
I praise the right way of practice on the part either of a householder or one gone forth; for whether it be a householder or one gone forth, one who has entered on the right way of practice, by reason of his right way of practice, is accomplishing the true way, the Dhamma that is wholesome.”
plwk
 
Posts: 2733
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:41 am

Re: How do you experience PL?

Postby zsc » Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:56 am

Nosta wrote:About practice, I am a little flickering: sometimes I will have daily recitations and be aware of Amitabha and in such times I am more peaceful, more confidente and aware of things; other times I need to make a break...as a human prone to desires, I feel the need to do "anti-renunciation" stuff: listen to energetic music (trance, DnB, rock, etc), go out and have a drink with friends, have sex, play computer, make sports...etc.


Why do you feel that living a normal life is taking a break from practice? Your life is the practice, including the music, drinking, sex, love, arguments, challenges, etc. Living naturally is fine within Pureland practice. We don't have to fake piety :smile:
yolo (but not really).
╮ (. ❛ ᴗ ❛.) ╭
성불하세요.
zsc
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:03 am

Re: How do you experience PL?

Postby Osho » Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:53 pm

Good call.
Pureland is so popular because it is a lay practice that anyone can do.
All respect to monks and nuns but that life isn't for everyone.
Look how PL has taken off in Thailand as the numbers ordaining has dropped off.
More about Mindfulness here
http://bemindful.co.uk/

" A Zen master's life is one continuous mistake."
(Dogen).
User avatar
Osho
 
Posts: 185
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:09 pm

Re: How do you experience PL?

Postby steveb1 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:30 am

Osho wrote:Good call.
Pureland is so popular because it is a lay practice that anyone can do.
All respect to monks and nuns but that life isn't for everyone.
Look how PL has taken off in Thailand as the numbers ordaining has dropped off.


Yeah. Without over-drawing similiarities, PL is a kind of "protestant" form of spirituality - no mediators between the adherent and Amida, Bodhi, Buddha Nature, etc. A form of spirituality for everyman/everywoman/everychild without ritual-and-dogmatic complexities.
steveb1
 
Posts: 289
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:37 am

Re: How do you experience PL?

Postby zsc » Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:05 am

steveb1 wrote:
Osho wrote:Good call.
Pureland is so popular because it is a lay practice that anyone can do.
All respect to monks and nuns but that life isn't for everyone.
Look how PL has taken off in Thailand as the numbers ordaining has dropped off.


Yeah. Without over-drawing similiarities, PL is a kind of "protestant" form of spirituality - no mediators between the adherent and Amida, Bodhi, Buddha Nature, etc. A form of spirituality for everyman/everywoman/everychild without ritual-and-dogmatic complexities.


I find Pureland practice pretty complex, actually. It's not too stressful though because of the assurance that Amida won't abandon me just because I don't dot every i or cross every t.

I compare this to a Christian folk belief which says that your guardian angel covers its eyes, weeps, and runs away from you...every time you masturbate or have pre-marital sex. Geez, talk about sensitive. :lol:

Edited to add: Also, if anything, PL teachings seem similar to Catholic teachings on the afterlife: with faith (and sacraments) you are going to heaven, but if you have some "stains" they will be washed off in purgatory (parallel to the teaching of different states of rebirth in the Pureland depending on a lot of different factors).
yolo (but not really).
╮ (. ❛ ᴗ ❛.) ╭
성불하세요.
zsc
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:03 am

Re: How do you experience PL?

Postby PorkChop » Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:03 pm

zsc wrote:I compare this to a Christian folk belief which says that your guardian angel covers its eyes, weeps, and runs away from you...every time you masturbate or have pre-marital sex. Geez, talk about sensitive. :lol:

That made me LOL
:rolling:

zsc wrote:Edited to add: Also, if anything, PL teachings seem similar to Catholic teachings on the afterlife: with faith (and sacraments) you are going to heaven, but if you have some "stains" they will be washed off in purgatory (parallel to the teaching of different states of rebirth in the Pureland depending on a lot of different factors).

My favorite interpretations; which really point at the differences between PL and Catholicism, are the quotes by Honen, Shinran, and others (even the sutras) that basically say:

"Anybody can really attain Pure Land birth, but nobody really stays there."
User avatar
PorkChop
 
Posts: 865
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:17 pm

Re: How do you experience PL?

Postby Osho » Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:46 pm

PorkChop wrote:
zsc wrote:I compare this to a Christian folk belief which says that your guardian angel covers its eyes, weeps, and runs away from you...every time you masturbate or have pre-marital sex. Geez, talk about sensitive. :lol:

That made me LOL
:rolling:

zsc wrote:Edited to add: Also, if anything, PL teachings seem similar to Catholic teachings on the afterlife: with faith (and sacraments) you are going to heaven, but if you have some "stains" they will be washed off in purgatory (parallel to the teaching of different states of rebirth in the Pureland depending on a lot of different factors).

My favorite interpretations; which really point at the differences between PL and Catholicism, are the quotes by Honen, Shinran, and others (even the sutras) that basically say:

"Anybody can really attain Pure Land birth, but nobody really stays there."


Considering some of the alternatives though, maybe getting to the PL's a reasonable enough ambition for us 'also rans' in life's race.
Not everyone's a 'jock' this time around.
:smile:
More about Mindfulness here
http://bemindful.co.uk/

" A Zen master's life is one continuous mistake."
(Dogen).
User avatar
Osho
 
Posts: 185
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:09 pm

Previous

Return to Pure Land

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: jaidyncasey and 4 guests

>