True Self in Jodo Shinshu

True Self in Jodo Shinshu

Postby Son of Buddha » Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:28 am

Rev.Nobuo Haneda teachings on True Self
maidacenter.org/docs/Dec2k11.pdf

Jodo Shinshu priest teaching children about the True Self.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZewpurM7D0

True Self teachings in Jodo Shinshu were esablished in the writings of Shinran Shonin. In the Kyogyoshinsho chapter 5 where the Buddha is said to be synonymous with eternity, bliss, self and purity.(the four virtues of Nirvana)

Also the second most quoted Sutra by Shinran in the Kyogyoshinsho is the Nirvana Sutra which is a True Self Sutra.
:anjali:
User avatar
Son of Buddha
 
Posts: 777
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: True Self in Jodo Shinshu

Postby Astus » Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:15 am

The idea of inherent enlightenment (hongaku) was irrelevant for Honen and Shinran, just as the concept of buddha-nature. For the simple reason that ordinary beings have no knowledge of it. Believing that one is already enlightened can easily lead to the misconception that one is not an ordinary being. Believing that there is a buddha-nature can easily lead to the misconception of an eternal soul. The teaching of inherent enlightenment is avoided, since the very first thing to understand an accept on the Pure Land path is that we are deluded ordinary beings incapable of saving ourselves. The teaching of buddha-nature is avoided for the same reason, it has no relevance and easily leads to false views. As for the buddhas and Amitabha Buddha in particular, of course they are perfect, enlightened, wise, and complete with all the great qualities.
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T51n2076, p461b24-26)
User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
 
Posts: 4126
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: True Self in Jodo Shinshu

Postby Son of Buddha » Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:42 am

Astus wrote:The idea of inherent enlightenment (hongaku) was irrelevant for Honen and Shinran, just as the concept of buddha-nature. For the simple reason that ordinary beings have no knowledge of it. Believing that one is already enlightened can easily lead to the misconception that one is not an ordinary being. Believing that there is a buddha-nature can easily lead to the misconception of an eternal soul. The teaching of inherent enlightenment is avoided, since the very first thing to understand an accept on the Pure Land path is that we are deluded ordinary beings incapable of saving ourselves. The teaching of buddha-nature is avoided for the same reason, it has no relevance and easily leads to false views. As for the buddhas and Amitabha Buddha in particular, of course they are perfect, enlightened, wise, and complete with all the great qualities.


Thats actually not true,Shinran was actually big on the attainment Buddha Nature.
Shinran's concluding remark: Buddha-nature is to be realized in the Pure Land
Verse37 We clearly know from the Tathagata's teaching of truth and the masters' commentaries that the Pure Land of Peace and Provision is the true Land of Recompense. Sentient beings with delusion and defilements cannot see Buddha-nature here, because it is covered over by evil passions. The [Nirvana Sutra] [Chapter on Kashyapa] says: "I say that bodhisattvas of the tenth stage see a little of Buddha-nature." Hence, we know that when we reach the Buddha Land of Peace and Bliss, Buddha-nature will certainly be revealed to us -through the Merit-transference by the Primal Vow-Power. It is also stated in the [Nirvana Sutra] [Chapter on Kashyapa] says: "Sentient beings will, in the future, attain and glorify bodies of purity and be able to see Buddha-nature."
User avatar
Son of Buddha
 
Posts: 777
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: True Self in Jodo Shinshu

Postby Astus » Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:22 pm

Occurrences of "buddha-nature" in the KGSS (tr. Hisao Inagaki):

1.6 - in a quote, used for describing the Buddha, in 1.7 Shinran sums up how all the above quotes confirm the Larger Sutra as the ultimate teaching

2.87 - in a quote, identified as the One Vehicle, previously in 2.84 Shinran says that the ultimate One Vehicle is the "One Buddha Vehicle of the Vow"

3.26 - in a quote, used to explain "true" for "true and sincere mind" (shijoshin) of the three minds. It was already explained in 2.13 that shijosin means "We should not show outwardly how wise, virtuous and diligent we are, because, inwardly, we entertain deceitfulness. Being possessed of all kinds of greed, anger, falsity, and crookedness, we can hardly remove our evil nature; we are indeed like snakes or scorpions." The quoted passage containing "buddha-nature" is meant to strengthen Shinran's statement that "the true and sincere mind endowed by the Buddha for our benefit through the inconceivable, indescribable and ineffable ocean-like Vow of great wisdom of the One Vehicle."

3.31 - in a quote, again used to establish that the Joyful Faith is based on Amitabha's compassion and not one's own effort, as introduced in 3.28.

3.105 - in a quote, used to praise nenbutsu practitioners

3.116 - in a quote, to show that the Buddha saves evil beings out of compassion

5.9 - in a quote, stating that the Buddha is not different from the buddha-nature

5.11 - in a quote, used as previously

5.15 - in a quote, used as previously

5.16 - in a quote, used as previously

5.17 - in a quote, icchantikas have buddha-nature, i.e. everybody can attain liberation

5.20 - in a quote, buddha-nature is hard to see

5.21 - in a quote, used as previously

5.37 - Shinran comments, liberation exists in the Pure Land


I wouldn't say he was "big on the attainment Buddha Nature" as he only uses it in one paragraph when not found in various quotes. The quotes are used in various contexts and they are not related to one's practice or anything that one should understand now. Buddha-nature is used as a synonym for various things (buddha qualities, compassion, liberation, potentiality of enlightenment, buddhahood) and not defined as anything central to the doctrine of Jodo Shinshu.
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T51n2076, p461b24-26)
User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
 
Posts: 4126
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: True Self in Jodo Shinshu

Postby Son of Buddha » Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:06 am

I wouldn't say he was "big on the attainment Buddha Nature" as he only uses it in one paragraph when not found in various quotes.

Sure he was big on Buddha Nature,as your notes show almost the entire 5th chapter is based on Buddha Nature and how one will attain Buddha Nature/Enlightenment in the Pute Land,this is to show that the GOAL for going to the Pure Land is to acheive Buddha Nature/Enlightenment.

Also 99% of the Kyogyoshinsho is QUOTES and only 1% is Shinrans commentary on the subject,this is because Shinran let the sutra passages and quotes from other masters speak for themselves,then he only added alittle commentary to clue you in on what the TOPIC was.

The "various" quotes as you say is the actual teaching and the purpose of the Kyogyoshinsho,Shinrans actual commentary was to set up the TOPIC then elaberate on the quotes provided for the topic.

You say that he only used Buddha Nature in one paragraph when not found in actual quotes.......well if you look at chapter 5 Shinran only speaks 3 paragraphs (1) is his presentation and has nothing to do with elaboration on the teachings.
Verse(37) is his teachings on Buddha Nature(confirmation of his numerous quotes)
Verse(39)is on true/provisional buddha/buddha land

So as we can see in the context of his writings on the 5th chapter he only has TWO paragraphs of commentary, and as you said one paragraph concerns Buddha Nature, this means HALF his commentorial writing in chapter 5 concerns Buddha Nature.

And since Shinran taught not through personal commentary but through direct quotes,this means 90% of chapter 5 teachings concerns the establishment of the Buddha Nature teaching and its attainment in the Pure Land(ultimate goal of rebirth in Pure Land) very important things.

The quotes are used in various contexts a are not related to one's practice or anything that one should understand now. Buddha-used as a synonym for various things (buddha qualities, compassion, liberation, potenti enlightenment, buddhahood) and not defined as anything central to the doctrine of Jod Shinshu.
[/quote][/quote]
Sure those quotes and teachings from Shinran are central to the doctrine of Jodo Shinshu....if they wasnt central doctrine then Shinran would of never wrote an entire chapter on the subject in his Kyogyoshinsho to begin with.
User avatar
Son of Buddha
 
Posts: 777
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: True Self in Jodo Shinshu

Postby Astus » Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:01 am

As I also wrote, the expression buddha-nature occurs with various meanings, but mostly as a synonym for buddhahood. To say that the goal of being born in the Pure Land is to attain buddhahood is not an unusual statement at all. So, why do you say it is an important thing that the word buddha-nature occurs among all the other words used?
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T51n2076, p461b24-26)
User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
 
Posts: 4126
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: True Self in Jodo Shinshu

Postby Son of Buddha » Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:32 am

Astus wrote:As I also wrote, the expression buddha-nature occurs with various meanings, but mostly as a synonym for buddhahood. To say that the goal of being born in the Pure Land is to attain buddhahood is not an unusual statement at all. So, why do you say it is an important thing that the word buddha-nature occurs among all the other words used?


Yes the term Buddha Nature is synoymous with Buddhahood,and the goal of Pure Land or any Buddhist practice is also obvious as you said.

in the context of the Thread the word Buddha Natute is important cause it shows why and where Jodo Shinshu Buddhists scools and groups get the True Self teachings from,also Buddha Nature is very important cause gives the Buddhas final teachings on what Enlightenment is.
User avatar
Son of Buddha
 
Posts: 777
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:48 pm


Return to Pure Land

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

>