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One "citta" at a time - Page 6 - Dhamma Wheel

One "citta" at a time

Discussion of Abhidhamma and related Commentaries

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Alex123
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Re: One "citta" at a time

Postby Alex123 » Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:50 pm

Hello all,

I wonder if it is even possible for us to directly perceive 10^21 cittas per second.
Can it be directly experienced by us?
Can it be directly experienced by the Buddha?
Last edited by Alex123 on Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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mikenz66
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Re: One "citta" at a time

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:58 pm

That's one of the questions I had on this thread: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2051
Which is, in part, why I'm interested in examining where these numbers come from.

:anjali:
Mike

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Alex123
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Re: One "citta" at a time

Postby Alex123 » Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:14 pm

Here is the problem that I am thinking about:

In order to know anything, such as characteristic of a citta a citta-vīthi process made of 17 cittas is required.
One citta cannot be aware of its own characteristics.
Only one citta happens at a time, and past cittas do not exist.

Since only one citta happens at a time, when one knows something it is about something that is already gone and no longer is. So this knowledge is NOT direct.

So how was the number arrived at and isn't the number itself a conceptual construct?

Time is a concept, kālapaññatti,(pg 327 in CMA) and so that would make the number of cittas per second conceptual. So how can concept be directly perceived?
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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kirk5a
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Re: One "citta" at a time

Postby kirk5a » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:27 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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mikenz66
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Re: One "citta" at a time

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:54 pm

Hi Kirk,

Please remember that this is the Abhidhamma Forum. I agree that it is useful to ask about how the meaning of the Abhidhamma and commentaries should be understood, but we should be focussing on what the texts actually say (which is why I keep asking if anyone can provide a source for how the commentaries arrived at that particular number).

The texts seem quite clear that there is no "parallel processing" of cittas.

:anjali:
Mike

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kirk5a
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Re: One "citta" at a time

Postby kirk5a » Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:34 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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acinteyyo
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Re: One "citta" at a time

Postby acinteyyo » Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:21 am

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

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mikenz66
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Re: One "citta" at a time

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:57 am


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robertk
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Re: One "citta" at a time

Postby robertk » Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:00 am

This is the wisdom of sariputta and the arahats.
what more explantion could you want? or do you want to know how an arahant with patisambhidimagga can perceive these facts?

When panna (wisdom ) is developed to that degree it can know directly this and much more.

Knowing that in the snap of a finger billions of cittas have arisen and passed away one can see that it is imposssible to control or change.

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robertk
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Re: One "citta" at a time

Postby robertk » Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:13 am


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cooran
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Re: One "citta" at a time

Postby cooran » Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:29 am

Hello Rob,

Please calm down. Your contributions are valued by members of all levels of knowledge of the Teachings. But - discussions are discussions, and with people of many nationalities sometimes things aren't expressed exactly as we would hope.
You would be missed if you withdrew from any forum.

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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retrofuturist
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Re: One "citta" at a time

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:29 am

Greetings,

OK - let's pause for breath a moment...

- It "is enough" to quote Abhidhamma commentary in the Abhidhamma forum
- It is reasonable to ask whether the commentary "is rooted" in the Abhidhamma Pitaka, but (in the context of this sub-forum) a negative response does not in any way invalidate the commentary.

:rules:

If that's in any way unclear, please PM myself or a mod rather than engage in meta-discussion.

Thank you.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

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mikenz66
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Re: One "citta" at a time

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:48 am


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acinteyyo
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Re: One "citta" at a time

Postby acinteyyo » Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:23 am

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

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mikenz66
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Re: One "citta" at a time

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:31 am

Hmm, sorry for the "anachronistic" label. I used that purely with reference to a lightning flash being a microsecond. In the time of the commentaries, or the Buddha, that would not be know, therefore anachonistic, roughly, mixing up stuff from different times.

:anjali:
Mike

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acinteyyo
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Re: One "citta" at a time

Postby acinteyyo » Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:40 am

Aaaah okay. Thanks, Mike. Btw I'm also looking forward to answers to your questions.
best wishes, acinteyyo
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

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robertk
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Re: One "citta" at a time

Postby robertk » Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:59 am


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Soe Win Htut
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Re: One "citta" at a time

Postby Soe Win Htut » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:33 am

Awareness(mental noting) alone is not enough for enlightenment. (Ashin Tejaniya)
Created truths(Sammuti Sacca) are just to be used only, experienced only and known onlyWithout rejecting and attaching them with the idea of reality.
Vipassana (Insight meditation) is changing from the volitional action to action-only, attachment to detachment, misunderstanding to right understanding.
To Learn more....
http://www.thabarwa.org, or
http://www.thabarwa.org/guided-insight-mp3-talks/


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