Pure Land Study Group Thread

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Re: Pureland study group anyone?

Postby Admin_PC » Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:56 am

Nosta wrote:In the first discussion here, about the smaller sutra, I wasnt very present. It was right after the birth of my child. I hope I can be more present in the next dicussion; at least present to read more carefully even if I dont participate a lot.

Porkchop, we could start by the larger sutra. Thats ok for me.

And we could start right now, then other people would join :)


I'm going to wait a bit longer to see how many people are up for it.
I'm in the middle of a certification class and a bunch of craziness going on with work, so I want to tackle this slowly.
In fact, if I'm entering it in line-by-line like last time, I may only work on one passage a week to give people time to respond.
May take a year to get through, but I have a feeling the final product would be better, especially given everything I'm juggling.
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Re: Pureland study group anyone?

Postby Son of Buddha » Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:48 am

PorkChop wrote:
Nosta wrote:In the first discussion here, about the smaller sutra, I wasnt very present. It was right after the birth of my child. I hope I can be more present in the next dicussion; at least present to read more carefully even if I dont participate a lot.

Porkchop, we could start by the larger sutra. Thats ok for me.

And we could start right now, then other people would join :)


I'm going to wait a bit longer to see how many people are up for it.
I'm in the middle of a certification class and a bunch of craziness going on with work, so I want to tackle this slowly.
In fact, if I'm entering it in line-by-line like last time, I may only work on one passage a week to give people time to respond.
May take a year to get through, but I have a feeling the final product would be better, especially given everything I'm juggling.


Sounds good Im game

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Re: Pureland study group anyone?

Postby Nosta » Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:15 am

Porkchop, thats ok to me. I am in too.

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Re: Pureland study group anyone?

Postby Admin_PC » Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:44 pm

Requests for commentaries.
As I'm planning on running through the Amitayus/Infinite Life/Longer Sukhavati Sutra,
I was wondering if anybody has any commentaries they'd like to see added?

So far I'm planning to take the commentary from Rulu's book, any commentary notes
from the 3 Pure Land Sutras book from the BDK, and Ven Chin Kung's commentary...

Here are some of the links:
Chin Kung's Passages from the Commentary on the Infinite Life Sutra
Excerpts from Chin Kung's Commentary on the Infinite Life Sutra
Online version of Rulu's translation. I'll still be hand-typing it, but here's the original if people want to see proper dialectic marks.
Online version of Rulu's translation of Vasubandhu's Upadeśa on the Sūtra of Amitāyus Buddha
Another copy of the Vasubandhu work from Hisao Inagaki
Payne's commentary on the Vasubandhu work
Audio commentaries on the Infinite Life Sutra from Tinh Thu Quan (though might actually be Ven Chin Kung)

Trying to find a copy of Honen's Muryoju Kyo, but so far no luck...
Can anybody else think of any other commentaries for this sutra?
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Re: Pureland study group anyone?

Postby Son of Buddha » Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:26 pm

PorkChop wrote:Requests for commentaries.
As I'm planning on running through the Amitayus/Infinite Life/Longer Sukhavati Sutra,
I was wondering if anybody has any commentaries they'd like to see added?

So far I'm planning to take the commentary from Rulu's book, any commentary notes
from the 3 Pure Land Sutras book from the BDK, and Ven Chin Kung's commentary...

Here are some of the links:
Chin Kung's Passages from the Commentary on the Infinite Life Sutra
Excerpts from Chin Kung's Commentary on the Infinite Life Sutra
Online version of Rulu's translation. I'll still be hand-typing it, but here's the original if people want to see proper dialectic marks.
Online version of Rulu's translation of Vasubandhu's Upadeśa on the Sūtra of Amitāyus Buddha
Another copy of the Vasubandhu work from Hisao Inagaki
Payne's commentary on the Vasubandhu work
Audio commentaries on the Infinite Life Sutra from Tinh Thu Quan (though might actually be Ven Chin Kung)

Trying to find a copy of Honen's Muryoju Kyo, but so far no luck...
Can anybody else think of any other commentaries for this sutra?


is there one about Bodhisattva Dharmakara????
in the begining of the sutra he was "creating" a Pure Land, after "creating" the Pure Land he became Amitabha Buddha.......I would like commentary on his actual process.and how his creation of the Pure Land corrisponded to him attaining Enlightenment....also how his Pure Mind corrisponds to his Pure Land.

peace and love

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Re: Pureland study group anyone?

Postby Admin_PC » Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:45 pm

Son of Buddha wrote:is there one about Bodhisattva Dharmakara????
in the begining of the sutra he was "creating" a Pure Land, after "creating" the Pure Land he became Amitabha Buddha.......I would like commentary on his actual process.and how his creation of the Pure Land corrisponded to him attaining Enlightenment....also how his Pure Mind corrisponds to his Pure Land.

peace and love


Err, I don't know if I've ever heard of a commentary covering that ground, but I'll see if I can find something.
I'm tempted to scour the Kyougyoushinshou & Tannishou from Shin Buddhism, Honen's Senchakushu, Visions of Sukhavati for commentary from Shantao, the Thich Thien Tam books, and anything else I've got on the shelf that might possibly cover the Amitayus Sutra... but that could take a while.
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Study group, who's interested?

Postby Admin_PC » Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:46 am

Thinking of continuing last year's study group.
Was considering doing a chapter-by-chapter discussion of a book this time around.
I'm wondering what everyone's opinions on that would be?
Any books in particular everyone's interested in?
Anybody prefer to do another sutra instead?
Any books/sutras we should stay away from?
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Re: Study group, who's interested?

Postby Son of Buddha » Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:59 am

PorkChop wrote:Thinking of continuing last year's study group.
Was considering doing a chapter-by-chapter discussion of a book this time around.
I'm wondering what everyone's opinions on that would be?
Any books in particular everyone's interested in?
Anybody prefer to do another sutra instead?
Any books/sutras we should stay away from?


How about discussion on Pure Land practices?
Are their rituals for new borns from a pure land perspective
How to meditate based around Pure Land
How laity bodhisattva pure landers should live in daily life.
commentary on experince from masters in pure land meditation.
What are the rituals done on a persons death bed in relation to pure land
What are the rituals done after a person dies in relation to pureland.

These are somethings I would be interested in.

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Re: Study group, who's interested?

Postby Grigoris » Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:21 am

PorkChop wrote:Thinking of continuing last year's study group.
Was considering doing a chapter-by-chapter discussion of a book this time around.
I'm wondering what everyone's opinions on that would be?
Any books in particular everyone's interested in?
Anybody prefer to do another sutra instead?
Any books/sutras we should stay away from?
If it is a sutra study, I would be interested.
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Re: Study group, who's interested?

Postby Lazy_eye » Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:56 pm

I''m interested too. Having a book as the focus sounds like a good way to keep things on track.

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Re: Study group, who's interested?

Postby Admin_PC » Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:34 pm

Son of Buddha wrote:How about discussion on Pure Land practices?

I think it'd be an interesting discussion, but we'll have to hope for contributions from folks such as Dodatsu, Sinweiy, and plwk, because I only know a limited amount in regards to these traditions. I'll ask around the Jodo Shu crowd to get some input from them if I can.
Son of Buddha wrote:Are their rituals for new borns from a pure land perspective

Rev Koyo Kubose of BrightDawn Sangha (his background is in Higashi Honganji Otani school of Jodo Shinshu as well as Soto & Rinzai Zen) related a story on one of his podcasts of a blessing ritual he performed for a newborn, but he seemed to say it was uncommon.
Son of Buddha wrote:How to meditate based around Pure Land

I've been told that you practice the visualizations from the Visualization Sutra while performing nembutsu, but that the visions can come about naturally while performing nembutsu as long as one is well-versed in the Visualization Sutra (this comes from Honen and his disciple Shoko Bencho. I imagine others have different methods, especially the Chinese practitioners. I know of at least one Vietnamese patriarch that practices "Esoteric Pure Land" and I have some of his Pure Land books. This is an area where some input from the Vajrayana crowd might come in handy.
Son of Buddha wrote:How laity bodhisattva pure landers should live in daily life.

The Amitayus Sutra has a lengthy discussion on this. Some schools stress "naturalness" and being as good as one can be without putting on an act or stressing oneself out.
Son of Buddha wrote:commentary on experience from masters in pure land meditation.

Again, I would imagine that the input from the mainland asia (including Tibet & Taiwan) crowd will be key.
Son of Buddha wrote:What are the rituals done on a persons death bed in relation to pure land

Aside from reciting nembutsu continuously, reciting the Pure Land sutras, and leaving the body alone after death for up to 24 hours, I'm pretty ignorant on this one. Hopefully we can get some input from some clergy.
Son of Buddha wrote:What are the rituals done after a person dies in relation to pureland.

I'm only aware of the 49 days nembutsu practice. I think I may have a book with this info, I know more than one is available.
Son of Buddha wrote:These are somethings I would be interested in.

They're all good questions, I just wish I could answer more of them.
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Re: Study group, who's interested?

Postby Admin_PC » Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:12 pm

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Re: Study group, who's interested?

Postby Jechan » Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:30 pm

Hi All,
Just looking at the list of great reading materials to choose from, Patriarch Yin Guang's Zen Pure Land, Pure Land Zen is a compendium of his letters to followers. They are short and concise pieces of advice to those who follow the practise.
Studying one letter at a time might make for a good study?
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Re: Study group, who's interested?

Postby Nicholas Weeks » Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:51 pm

This text (Dialogs with Ancient Masters) is my choice because Chih-i addresses common criticisms, even then, of the Pure Land pathway.

http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/pureland.pdf
Basically, there is not even one buddha, only great wisdom. Bodhisattva Hsuan Hua

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Re: Study group, who's interested?

Postby Lazy_eye » Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:51 pm

I'm open to any of the books on the list, Some of them I have already read, but wouldn't object to looking into them again.

I really like Ven Wu Ling's book. She presents Pure Land as a kind of samadhi practice, and this was eye-opening for me. She is a student of Ven Chin Kung's.

And I've had a longstanding aspiration to read Shinran, so wouldn't mind going that direction at all.

Rob (Lazy Eye)

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Re: Study group, who's interested?

Postby Grigoris » Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:53 pm

I reckon you should just choose the text you want to PC. By the time everybody has finished expounding their personal preferences this precious human life will be over! :tongue:
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Re: Study group, who's interested?

Postby Admin_PC » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:16 pm

Will wrote:This text (Dialogs with Ancient Masters) is my choice because Chih-i addresses common criticisms, even then, of the Pure Land pathway.

http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/pureland.pdf


I love the idea of covering this book.

Just wanted to point something out, not for your sake, but to put it out there before others start commenting and this whole thing gets messy.

The attribution of the Ching-t'u Shih-i-lun (淨土十疑論) to Chih-i/Zhiyi is considered spurious by many modern academics thanks to the following article appearing in the Journal of the Eastern Buddhist Society:
NS06-1 1973 Leo Pruden The Ching-t'u Shih-i-lun (Ten Doubts Concerning the Pure Land) 126-157

As I can't find a copy online, I can only go by the summary found in the Chung-Hwa Buddhist Journal, No. 13.2, (2000):
Chung-Hwa Buddhist Journal, No. 13.2, (2000) wrote:Note that Tiantai shiyi lun quotes a number of works produced in Tang times. On the other hand, those prominent authors engaged in the teaching of Pure Land devotion during the Tang, such as Jiacai (迦才, ca.620~680), Huaigan (懷感, dates unclear), kuiji ( 窺基, 632~682), Daojing (道鏡,dates unclear) and Shandao ( 善道,dates unclear), never quoted this work [ie: the Jingtu shiyi lun (淨土十疑論)]. Pure Land authors in the Song not only quoted this work but also wrote preface to it. Thus the author could not be Zhiyi, nor could it be any of the Tang authors named above as suggested by some Japanese scholars, in particular Sato Tetsuei, mentioned in Leo Pruden’s “The Ching-t’u shih-i-lun” in Eastern Buddhist, 6:1 (May, 1973) pp. 126-157. The author is very likely a Tiantai monk in late Tang or early Song.


Seeing as how the Song dynasty wasn't until 960 CE onward and the Ching-t'u Shih-i-lun was quoted in the mid-700s CE by Patriarch Zhanran; I really don't see how this particular assessment holds up, but that's modern academia's take on this issue. I just wanted to put this out there before it started any controversy with self-professed experts of Chih-I.


===========

Right now I'm leaning towards Pure-Land Zen, Zen Pure-Land just because it's short and I think a quick walk-through could help build some momentum and confidence for the group before we start tackling longer works. I definitely want to hit Dialogs with Ancient Masters at some point.
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Re: Study group, who's interested?

Postby Nicholas Weeks » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:23 pm

Porky, you are the OP, so just pick one that is online and we will not argue, but focus on the teachings together.
Basically, there is not even one buddha, only great wisdom. Bodhisattva Hsuan Hua

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Re: Study group, who's interested?

Postby Admin_PC » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:35 pm

Will wrote:Porky, you are the OP, so just pick one that is online and we will not argue, but focus on the teachings together.


Will do! :twothumbsup:
I'll get started on it as soon as I can.
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Re: Study group, who's interested?

Postby Zhen Li » Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:25 am

I would also be happy to join in any pureland discussion.


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