Pure land and Tibetan Buddhism

Pure land and Tibetan Buddhism

Postby MattyNottwo » Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:49 pm

Does anyone know much about Pure Land Buddhism in Tibet? I found a book recently Called "Luminous Bliss," but haven't been able to read it. I also listened to a Dharma talk by a Tibetan teacher who said Pure Land is actually big in Tibet, but it's not
very popular here for the same reasons that other Pure Land schools aren't very popular here (in the west.) I also read that Pure Land claims Nagarjuna as a Patriarch, and I know his teachings are very popular in Tibet, as well as in probably every Mahayana school. Anyway, just curious.
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Re: Pure land and Tibetan Buddhism

Postby kirtu » Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:15 pm

Pure Land practice is very big in Tibetan Buddhism. Many, perhaps most people, practice to be reborn in Amitabha's Pure Land at death (or in some cases another Pure Land like Medicine Buddha's or Tara's Pure Land but this is not really encouraged). There are many, many prayers for rebirth in Amitabha's Pure Land. In addition there are practices of conscious transference of the mind at death to various Pure Lands (not just Amitabha's although that is the primary practice). However Pure Land practice is Tibetan Buddhism is different than that found in the Jodo Shu and Jodo Shinshu schools. Tibetan Buddhist Pure Land practice is much more like (perhaps indistinguishable from) Chinese Pure Land practice.

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Re: Pure land and Tibetan Buddhism

Postby Son of Buddha » Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:36 pm

kirtu wrote:Pure Land practice is very big in Tibetan Buddhism. Many, perhaps most people, practice to be reborn in Amitabha's Pure Land at death (or in some cases another Pure Land like Medicine Buddha's or Tara's Pure Land but this is not really encouraged). There are many, many prayers for rebirth in Amitabha's Pure Land. In addition there are practices of conscious transference of the mind at death to various Pure Lands (not just Amitabha's although that is the primary practice). However Pure Land practice is Tibetan Buddhism is different than that found in the Jodo Shu and Jodo Shinshu schools. Tibetan Buddhist Pure Land practice is much more like (perhaps indistinguishable from) Chinese Pure Land practice.

Kirt



I have generally found all Pureland schools/teachings to be the same.
I know Japan teaches only faith( other power)
But they still chant Amida Buddhas Name
China teaches both self and other power.
And they consider the chanting of the name Amitoufo as a practice.
(so in the context of chanting japan techincally still practices,they just dont call it a practice)

Generally the views are the same.

The only real difference I see is that Pureland teachers in Japan are laity
While pureland in China still seems to run under monks.
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Re: Pure land and Tibetan Buddhism

Postby PLB » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:06 pm

Son of Buddha wrote:
I have generally found all Pureland schools/teachings to be the same.
I know Japan teaches only faith( other power)
But they still chant Amida Buddhas Name
China teaches both self and other power.
And they consider the chanting of the name Amitoufo as a practice.
(so in the context of chanting japan techincally still practices,they just dont call it a practice)

Generally the views are the same.

The only real difference I see is that Pureland teachers in Japan are laity
While pureland in China still seems to run under monks.


I find the following paper useful to understand some of the difference between Chinese and Japanese Pure land schools
Attachments
PureLand.CharlesJones.pdf
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Re: Pure land and Tibetan Buddhism

Postby MattyNottwo » Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:27 am

Thank you :smile:
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Re: Pure land and Tibetan Buddhism

Postby sinweiy » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:23 am

Son of Buddha wrote:The only real difference I see is that Pureland teachers in Japan are laity
While pureland in China still seems to run under monks.


i differ, Pureland teaching itself run more on laity.
there's a saying, in the past, monks attain Enlightenment easier, follow by nuns, follow by laymen, follow by laywomen. but now, there's a gradual reverse effect during dharma ending age. laywomen will attain rebirth in Pureland easier, follow by laymen, follow by nuns, follow by monks. That said, Amitabha Sutra will be the last sutra to disappear, follow by Namo Amitabha, follow by (only) Amitabha.
_/\_
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Re: Pure land and Tibetan Buddhism

Postby sinweiy » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:31 am

The other pure land is the Medicine Buddha's Eastern Pure Land of Azure Radiance. While the Pure Land of Amitabha Buddha symbolizes restoration, the Pure Land of Medicine Buddha symbolizes growth. It says in the sutra that when Medicine Buddha was cultivating the path of Buddhahood, he made twelve great vows. He vowed to help us sentient beings so that we grow in wisdom and are successful in our careers and endeavors; he vowed to help us when we are handicapped, poor, and helpless. He vowed that we will not be lacking in food and other neces-sities, that we do not fall prey to false teachings, that we do not break the law and thus are safe from the pain of punishment, that there is equality between the genders, and that we will become Buddhas. With his great vows, Medicine Buddha manifests the Pure Land of Azure Radiance in the east. Most remarkably, the Bhaisajyaguru Sutra points out that those who recite the name of Medicine Buddha can also be reborn in the Pure Land of Amitabha Buddha in the west if they so desire and practice accordingly.


http://www.blia.org/english/publication ... ges/14.htm

http://www.truehappiness.ws/Medicine_Buddha.html

The Twelve Vows of the Medicine Buddha upon attaining Enlightenment, according to the Medicine Buddha Sutra[5] are:

To illuminate countless realms with his radiance, enabling anyone to become a Buddha just like him.
To awaken the minds of sentient beings through his light of lapis lazuli.
To provide the sentient beings with whatever material needs they require.
To correct heretical views and inspire beings toward the path of the Bodhisattva.
To help beings follow the Moral Precepts, even if they failed before.
To heal beings born with deformities, illness or other physical sufferings.
To help relieve the destitute and the sick.
To help women who wish to be reborn as men achieve their desired rebirth.
To help heal mental afflictions and delusions.
To help the oppressed be free from suffering.
To relieve those who suffer from terrible hunger and thirst.
To help clothe those who are destitute and suffering from cold and mosquitoes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhaisajyaguru

mostly for the living per se.
_/\_
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Re: Pure land and Tibetan Buddhism

Postby Son of Buddha » Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:37 am

sinweiy wrote:
Son of Buddha wrote:The only real difference I see is that Pureland teachers in Japan are laity
While pureland in China still seems to run under monks.


i differ, Pureland teaching itself run more on laity.
there's a saying, in the past, monks attain Enlightenment easier, follow by nuns, follow by laymen, follow by laywomen. but now, there's a gradual reverse effect during dharma ending age. laywomen will attain rebirth in Pureland easier, follow by laymen, follow by nuns, follow by monks. That said, Amitabha Sutra will be the last sutra to disappear, follow by Namo Amitabha, follow by (only) Amitabha.


What I mean is the Sangha structure.

In Japan jodoshishu and others are ran entirely by laity,thats to say their teachers are laity priests that do not hold monastic ordination.(laity teachers)

While in China or Vietnam the Pureland school is not seperate from the Chan school.
So it is still the Monks that are the teachers.

(yes i understand that Pureland is more laity oriented,my comment was generally toward the Sangha structures being different)

I personally as stated above dont view much difference between them other than some small things.
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Re: Pure land and Tibetan Buddhism

Postby Son of Buddha » Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:51 am

Hey

Someone needs to make a thread on Pureland Practice.

Showing how Chanting Amitoufo is a form of meditation(Buddha remeberance/mindfullness)
Listing the progressive stages through Buddha rememberance....
Showing how its a dhyana practice that leads to insight arising....
(i think Surangama Sutra mentions this practice also)

Post videos from teachers on the subject.

Also to see how other traditions practice.

Ect...(or does this thread already exist) if it does send me a link...or PM

Peace and Love
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Re: Pure land and Tibetan Buddhism

Postby sinweiy » Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:03 am

Son of Buddha wrote:
What I mean is the Sangha structure.

In Japan jodoshishu and others are ran entirely by laity,thats to say their teachers are laity priests that do not hold monastic ordination.(laity teachers)

While in China or Vietnam the Pureland school is not seperate from the Chan school.
So it is still the Monks that are the teachers.

(yes i understand that Pureland is more laity oriented,my comment was generally toward the Sangha structures being different)

I personally as stated above dont view much difference between them other than some small things.


i see. "run" :smile:
_/\_
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"Enlightenment is to turn around and see MY own mistake, Other's mistake is also my mistake. Others are right even if they are wrong. i'm wrong even if i'm right. " - Master Chin Kung
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Re: Pure land and Tibetan Buddhism

Postby PorkChop » Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:50 pm

Son of Buddha wrote:Hey

Someone needs to make a thread on Pureland Practice.

Showing how Chanting Amitoufo is a form of meditation(Buddha remeberance/mindfullness)
Listing the progressive stages through Buddha rememberance....
Showing how its a dhyana practice that leads to insight arising....
(i think Surangama Sutra mentions this practice also)

Post videos from teachers on the subject.

Also to see how other traditions practice.

Ect...(or does this thread already exist) if it does send me a link...or PM

Peace and Love


Are you talking something specifically for Tibetan Pure Land practice?
Otherwise, I've mostly been using the stickied Pure Land Resources thread at the top of this forum as a resource for anything and everything to do with Pure Land practice.
Pratyutpanna sutra's a pretty good starting point for Buddha rememberance samadhi.
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Re: Pure land and Tibetan Buddhism

Postby Son of Buddha » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:51 pm

"PorkChop"

Are you talking something specifically for Tibetan Pure Land practice?
Otherwise, I've mostly been using the stickied Pure Land Resources thread at the top of this forum as a resource for anything and everything to do with Pure Land practice.
Pratyutpanna sutra's a pretty good starting point for Buddha rememberance samadhi.


No something for everybody(im not sure if a thread like it already exists if i find what im looking for ill post on it)

Generally just detailed practice info
I cant remember the video,but it was a monk teaching the 5 stages of progression through Buddha rememberance Samadhi...I remember watching it in the past(long past).. And not long ago I experienced what he was talking about,and his teachings came instantly to mind.

If I find his video or one like I will post it.
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Re: Pure land and Tibetan Buddhism

Postby PorkChop » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:07 pm

Son of Buddha wrote:No something for everybody(im not sure if a thread like it already exists if i find what im looking for ill post on it)

Generally just detailed practice info
I cant remember the video,but it was a monk teaching the 5 stages of progression through Buddha rememberance Samadhi...I remember watching it in the past(long past).. And not long ago I experienced what he was talking about,and his teachings came instantly to mind.

If I find his video or one like I will post it.


That'd be awesome!
Would love to check it out.
Thanks!

The Theravadan practice of reciting "Buddho" reminds me very much of Pure Land practice (they're both built on the same foundation).
I find this quote helpful:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai/dune/giftsheleft.html wrote:17. WHAT BUDDHO IS LIKE

Luang Pu was invited to teach in Bangkok on March 31, 1978. During a Dhamma conversation, some lay people expressed their doubts about what "buddho" was like. Luang Pu was kind enough to answer:

"When you meditate, don't send your mind outside. Don't fasten onto any knowledge at all. Whatever knowledge you've gained from books or teachers, don't bring it in to complicate things. Cut away all preoccupations, and then as you meditate let all your knowledge come from what's going on in the mind. When the mind is quiet, you'll know it for yourself. But you have to keep meditating a lot. When the time comes for things to develop, they'll develop on their own. Whatever you know, have it come from your own mind.

"The knowledge that comes from a mind that's quiet is extremely subtle and profound. So let your knowledge come out of a mind quiet and still.

"Have the mind give rise to a single preoccupation. Don't send it outside. Let the mind stay right in the mind. Let the mind meditate on its own. Let it be the one that keeps repeating buddho, buddho. And then genuine buddho will appear in the mind. You'll know for yourself what buddho is like. That's all there is to it. There's not a whole lot..."
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Re: Pure land and Tibetan Buddhism

Postby shaunc » Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:12 am

I'm not affilliated to any sect or temple but felt I should throw this out there. I drive for a living & chant while driving "Namo Amitabbha Buddha". I've been doing this for a couple of weeks now. For the last 3 months or so I've had a sore elbow (tennis elbow), since I've started chanting my arm has given me far less trouble. Anyway I'm not a teacher or an academic looking for an explanation of some sort, I'm just enjoying my practise of buddhism, chanting, meditation & my (almost) pain free elbow.
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Re: Pure land and Tibetan Buddhism

Postby Son of Buddha » Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:42 pm

PorkChop wrote:
Son of Buddha wrote:No something for everybody(im not sure if a thread like it already exists if i find what im looking for ill post on it)

Generally just detailed practice info
I cant remember the video,but it was a monk teaching the 5 stages of progression through Buddha rememberance Samadhi...I remember watching it in the past(long past).. And not long ago I experienced what he was talking about,and his teachings came instantly to mind.

If I find his video or one like I will post it.


That'd be awesome!
Would love to check it out.
Thanks!
The Theravadan practice of reciting "Buddho" reminds me very much of Pure Land practice (they're both built on the same foundation).
I find this quote helpful:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai/dune/giftsheleft.html wrote:17. WHAT BUDDHO IS LIKE

Luang Pu was invited to teach in Bangkok on March 31, 1978. During a Dhamma conversation, some lay people expressed their doubts about what "buddho" was like. Luang Pu was kind enough to answer:

"When you meditate, don't send your mind outside. Don't fasten onto any knowledge at all. Whatever knowledge you've gained from books or teachers, don't bring it in to complicate things. Cut away all preoccupations, and then as you meditate let all your knowledge come from what's going on in the mind. When the mind is quiet, you'll know it for yourself. But you have to keep meditating a lot. When the time comes for things to develop, they'll develop on their own. Whatever you know, have it come from your own mind.

"The knowledge that comes from a mind that's quiet is extremely subtle and profound. So let your knowledge come out of a mind quiet and still.

"Have the mind give rise to a single preoccupation. Don't send it outside. Let the mind stay right in the mind. Let the mind meditate on its own. Let it be the one that keeps repeating buddho, buddho. And then genuine buddho will appear in the mind. You'll know for yourself what buddho is like. That's all there is to it. There's not a whole lot..."



Awsome sutta.
Hey I found the video im going to post it with some (notes) from the video.
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Re: Pure land and Tibetan Buddhism

Postby Konchog1 » Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:09 pm

There is a beautiful Amitabha Sadhana written by the Fifth Dalai Lama called The Gateway to Sukhavati. It is designed to be practiced before sleep every night but has a Daily Activities portion as well.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

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Re: Pure land and Tibetan Buddhism

Postby kirtu » Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:02 am

Konchog1 wrote:There is a beautiful Amitabha Sadhana written by the Fifth Dalai Lama called The Gateway to Sukhavati. It is designed to be practiced before sleep every night but has a Daily Activities portion as well.


Amitabha Sleep Yoga. This is still taught in Sakya and I have heard it is taught by lamas from other traditions as well. It's really excellent.

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Re: Pure land and Tibetan Buddhism

Postby Tree » Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:29 pm

Awesome thread! I had no idea it was so popular with Tibetans.
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Re: Pure land and Tibetan Buddhism

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:46 pm

Isn't Chenrezig practice is a form of pureland practice in some sense? Every sadhana i've seen includes prayers to reborn in Sukhavati, and if you read Chenrezig: The Lord of Love for example, the entire point of Chenrezig practice is mentioned as a sort of practice of birth and death, to avoid rebirth in a womb, to navigate the Bardo and be reborn in Dewachen, if I understood the book correctly.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: Pure land and Tibetan Buddhism

Postby Nosta » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:27 pm

Konchog1 wrote:There is a beautiful Amitabha Sadhana written by the Fifth Dalai Lama called The Gateway to Sukhavati. It is designed to be practiced before sleep every night but has a Daily Activities portion as well.



Never heard of it. How is it done? How does it work?
Any book or ebook about it?

Thanks.
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