Relation between Nichiren Shu and Nichiren Shoshu

Re: Relation between Nichiren Shu and Nichiren Shoshu

Postby OregonBuddhist » Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:18 pm

Wow. You really are a fountain of wisdom on this topic. Thank you so much. I agree, by the way. I chant both "nam" and "namu." I like them both. :)
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Re: Relation between Nichiren Shu and Nichiren Shoshu

Postby Queequeg » Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:40 pm

OregonBuddhist wrote:I like them both. :)

Me, too. :)
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Re: Relation between Nichiren Shu and Nichiren Shoshu

Postby OregonBuddhist » Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:00 pm

I found some article somewhere that says the debate between "nam" and "namu" is pointless, because in Nichiren's time the pronunciation of all of these terms was different anyway.
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Re: Relation between Nichiren Shu and Nichiren Shoshu

Postby jccampb » Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:11 pm

First; I'd like to comment on the level and considerate dialog I've seen on this site so far, most impressive. I've been a Nichiren Shoshu lay member now since 1975 BTW ..
I do recall hearing that up until some years ago (15? 20?) that all Nichiren Shoshu Priests took training at Risshu Dai-gakku?
http://www.ris.ac.jp/en/campus/guide.html#overview
anyone else run into this factoid before? jccampb
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Re: Relation between Nichiren Shu and Nichiren Shoshu

Postby Queequeg » Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:05 pm

Hi JC,

Welcome to the conversation.

I don't know if all N. Shoshu priests studied at Rissho Daigaku, but my understanding is that many did. My understanding is that at some point, 15-20, maybe more, years ago, because of the doctrinal differences, Taisekiji opened its own seminary/university for their priests.
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Re: Relation between Nichiren Shu and Nichiren Shoshu

Postby noisemonkey » Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:08 pm

Queequeg wrote:BTW, to correct a minor matter - Nichiren Shoshu was not founded from within Nichiren Shoshu. This was a lay movement that was closely tied with Taisekiji for a while, but has its origin outside of the temple institution.



please elaborate.
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Re: Relation between Nichiren Shu and Nichiren Shoshu

Postby noisemonkey » Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:09 pm

OregonBuddhist wrote:I found some article somewhere that says the debate between "nam" and "namu" is pointless, because in Nichiren's time the pronunciation of all of these terms was different anyway.



we use the namu when doing hiki (elongated) Daimoku before each silent prayer but the rest of the time it's just nam. The namu that our High Priest chants is incredibly long, it's awesome to hear.
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Re: Relation between Nichiren Shu and Nichiren Shoshu

Postby Queequeg » Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:25 pm

Mistake. Should have read:

Queequeg wrote:BTW, to correct a minor matter - Soka Gakkai was not founded from within Nichiren Shoshu. This was a lay movement that was closely tied with Taisekiji for a while, but has its origin outside of the temple institution.
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Re: Relation between Nichiren Shu and Nichiren Shoshu

Postby noisemonkey » Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:27 pm

Queequeg wrote:Mistake. Should have read:

Queequeg wrote:BTW, to correct a minor matter - Soka Gakkai was not founded from within Nichiren Shoshu. This was a lay movement that was closely tied with Taisekiji for a while, but has its origin outside of the temple institution.



Yep correct, sg was founded as the "value creation society" in Japan before Makiguchi started practicing and was allowed for them to affiliated with Taisekiji after that.
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Re: Relation between Nichiren Shu and Nichiren Shoshu

Postby noisemonkey » Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:34 pm

Queequeg wrote:Nichiren Shoshu is much more like the Vatican. They have the mothership Gohonzon through which humanity will be saved and they even have a concept similar to the Pope's infallibility associated with the Taisekiji Abbot.


We don't have any such infallibility concept that I've heard about :shrug:
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Re: Relation between Nichiren Shu and Nichiren Shoshu

Postby robban » Sun May 19, 2013 2:05 pm

OregonBuddhist wrote:
Queequeg wrote:Nichiren Shu is not a monolithic Nichiren group with some set orthodoxy across the whole. It is a federation of temples and practitioners with varying degrees of affiliation with the central administration of Nichiren Shu based at Minobu Kuonji and Ikegami Honmonji. There is a wide diversity of beliefs held within Nichiren Shu owing to the many different lineages that have been united under the Nichiren Shu umbrella. Nichiren did teach Mahayana. His critique is a nuanced, but I would say still falls within Mahayana (Mahayana is by no means a designation for a monolithic tradition either).


Thank you very much for the this description. This is very interesting. I come from a Catholic background, so it's inevitable that I would superimpose my background onto Nichiren Buddhism. I suppose I had thought of Nichiren Shu as having a Vatican-like central authority located somewhere near Mt. Fuji in Japan. Apparently, this isn't the case. By the way, this IS the case for Soka Gakkai and Nichiren Shoshu, correct?

Yes, I've read that Nichiren Shoshu is the only Nichiren group that teaches Nichiren was the Buddha reincarnated. Does Soka Gakkai teach this as well?

Thank you for the interesting links.



Yes, I've read that Nichiren Shoshu is the only Nichiren group that teaches Nichiren was the Buddha reincarnated. Does Soka Gakkai teach this as well?

hi everyone!

picking up the thread......................

couldn't find the answer to this question.


by the way. great forum:)
English is not my first language
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Re: Relation between Nichiren Shu and Nichiren Shoshu

Postby shaunc » Mon May 20, 2013 7:29 am

Slightly off topic but I was wondering if anyone could tell me why SGI gets so much bad press off many buddhist forums. I have had a fairly limited exposure to them & they were all very nice people to me. I have heard that they are intolerant of other religions/sects but I never witnessed any of this.
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Re: Relation between Nichiren Shu and Nichiren Shoshu

Postby Jikan » Mon May 20, 2013 1:17 pm

shaunc wrote:Slightly off topic but I was wondering if anyone could tell me why SGI gets so much bad press off many buddhist forums. I have had a fairly limited exposure to them & they were all very nice people to me. I have heard that they are intolerant of other religions/sects but I never witnessed any of this.


Here's the thread for that topic:

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=10228
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viewtopic.php?f=114&t=13727
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Re: Relation between Nichiren Shu and Nichiren Shoshu

Postby noisemonkey » Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:41 am

robban wrote:
OregonBuddhist wrote:
Queequeg wrote:Nichiren Shu is not a monolithic Nichiren group with some set orthodoxy across the whole. It is a federation of temples and practitioners with varying degrees of affiliation with the central administration of Nichiren Shu based at Minobu Kuonji and Ikegami Honmonji. There is a wide diversity of beliefs held within Nichiren Shu owing to the many different lineages that have been united under the Nichiren Shu umbrella. Nichiren did teach Mahayana. His critique is a nuanced, but I would say still falls within Mahayana (Mahayana is by no means a designation for a monolithic tradition either).


Thank you very much for the this description. This is very interesting. I come from a Catholic background, so it's inevitable that I would superimpose my background onto Nichiren Buddhism. I suppose I had thought of Nichiren Shu as having a Vatican-like central authority located somewhere near Mt. Fuji in Japan. Apparently, this isn't the case. By the way, this IS the case for Soka Gakkai and Nichiren Shoshu, correct?

Yes, I've read that Nichiren Shoshu is the only Nichiren group that teaches Nichiren was the Buddha reincarnated. Does Soka Gakkai teach this as well?

Thank you for the interesting links.



Yes, I've read that Nichiren Shoshu is the only Nichiren group that teaches Nichiren was the Buddha reincarnated. Does Soka Gakkai teach this as well?

hi everyone!

picking up the thread......................

couldn't find the answer to this question.


by the way. great forum:)



Nichiren Shoshu doesn't teach that Nichiren is the Buddha reincarnated, it's a topic that needs a thread of it's own to do justice. Nichiren is the original Buddha from Kuon Ganjo (the infinite past) whereas Shakyamuni's enlightenment was first attained in the time of Gohyaku Jindengo (an extremely long but finite amount of time ago).
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Re: Relation between Nichiren Shu and Nichiren Shoshu

Postby Jikan » Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:50 pm

noisemonkey wrote:Nichiren Shoshu doesn't teach that Nichiren is the Buddha reincarnated, it's a topic that needs a thread of it's own to do justice. Nichiren is the original Buddha from Kuon Ganjo (the infinite past) whereas Shakyamuni's enlightenment was first attained in the time of Gohyaku Jindengo (an extremely long but finite amount of time ago).


Let's do it justice:

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=12955
Need help getting on retreat? Want to support others in practice? Pay the Dana for Dharma forum a visit...

viewtopic.php?f=114&t=13727
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Re: Relation between Nichiren Shu and Nichiren Shoshu

Postby robby » Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:52 am

noisemonkey wrote:
robban wrote:



Nichiren Shoshu doesn't teach that Nichiren is the Buddha reincarnated, it's a topic that needs a thread of it's own to do justice. Nichiren is the original Buddha from Kuon Ganjo (the infinite past) whereas Shakyamuni's enlightenment was first attained in the time of Gohyaku Jindengo (an extremely long but finite amount of time ago).


Yes. I want to concur that is what Nichiren Shoshu teaches. I gather they take kuon ganjo to mean eternity.

AFAIK, Nichiren Shu uses another terms, translated as Remote or Ancient Past for the time of Shakyamuni's Original Awakening. This is also seen as meaning eternity, not some finite point in time and space. Some take it literally that the same being who appeared in this world has always been Awake. I think others might take it figuratively, as meaning Eternal Buddha Nature, not some individual being. Shakyamuni awoke to the same Buddha Nature as the 27 Samyak Sambuddhas who appeared before him.

In Nichiren Shu, the Eternal Buddha is imaged as Shakyamuni aka Gotama Buddha because he is the Buddha for this Buddha-Sasana. Several Nichiren Shu Ministers have told me this is their view.
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