Religious transference: Nichiren Buddhism and Catholicism

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nichirenista
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Re: Religious transference: Nichiren Buddhism and Catholicis

Post by nichirenista »

Myoho-Nameless wrote:
I am glad you feel a sense of brotherhood. See I differ actually, I think a lot of what passes for male brotherhood is not the deep meaningful bond that has been available to us before we all became so d%mn insecure and...I can only say "homophobic". you only see this in situation where we must kill our brothers in Y chromosome.
As I mentioned above, I'm not denying that we males have our own weirdness about us. I agree entirely that males are as a general rule conditioned toward violence against other males, which I don't think is a good thing. But the difference in this regard is that we are conditioned toward violence against males who are not ON OUR TEAM. Women, on the other hand, have a difficulty creating a team at all. I'm not just speaking in context of sports or battle, but in every day life it seems that males have a need to create a kind of team.

I've posted above that I am only slightly less muscular than "The Rock." The way I got this way is because I am ultimately shy, quiet, and introverted -- which is the same reason I'm interested in Buddhism. Weightlifting and martial arts are activities that in my opinion are ultimately introverted, and most males that I know who take part in these activities are actually like me: quiet, shy, and introverted.

And yet every time I enter a room, if there are males present, I am keenly aware that a subtle pecking order is established -- one which I ultimately think is absolutely needless. (This happens when I go into the library, for example.) And I have come to regrettably accept that, due to my size, most of the males in the room, unless there is a professional football player there, which is rare, want to put me at the top of this subtle pecking order.

Why is a pecking order even necessary? All I wanted to do was read a book at the library. And the only reason I ended up almost as muscular as "The Rock," is because weightlifting is ultimately an introverted activity, like reading.

So, I'm not idealizing males and vilifying females. We're both weird and our own way. (When I walk into the library I sometimes get dirty looks from young males, and I've learned that the game I have to play is to give the dirty look right back, to which the other male ultimately defers -- because I'm the bigger guy. It all boils down to the younger male ultimately just wanting me to notice him, establish his place within the pecking order, and probably -- on some subconscious level -- make it clear that if any trouble ensued, I could protect him. But, man, all I wanted to do was sit down and read a book…. We're in the friggin library, for God's sake, not on some battlefield.)
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rory
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Re: Religious transference: Nichiren Buddhism and Catholicis

Post by rory »

Okay these posts are very helpful for me in understanding male culture, silent 'sizing up' and things I know absolutely nothing about. Your observations about women are skewed by the fact that this is the interaction about straight probably non-feminist women, who have been inculturated to behave this way. I did leave a few forums due to the crude terms these women had for other women after I objected. If a man appeared in these mostly female forums they'd fawn over him.

This is definitely not the case with lesbians. It's a tremendously supportive group; because we're not competing for scarce men who can support us! Sisterhood is alive and well. We all have jobs (good ones as lesbians make more $ than gay men or straight women), we have no expectations that someone will support us. We don't worry about turning 30 as women find older & same age women attractive. We don't obsess about 'pefect bodies' and fashions, as we reject mainstream notions of femininity. We are really free and it is entirely liberating as we can be our authentic selves.

Now when it comes to early Buddhism let's separate 2 things: scholarship and faith. I am a believing Buddhist but intellectually I can deal with scholarship: we really have little idea of what the Buddha said, as there was no written culture then and later emendations were made. Recent archeology and more works have show that Theravada hasn't the oldest documents, Ghandhara is so far, early monasticism wasn't ascetic, and Maghada was a center for Jain culture not Vedic. That's a big difference So I suggest you read Buddhist scholars (Armstrong is definitely not one) like Gregory Schopen, Bernard Faure, etc...

I've asked Indrajala to come over as he's getting his Phd in Buddhism, reads Classical Chinese and Japanese and has written about this.

Personally I've practiced Nichiren Buddhism and have experienced the reality of this Dharma of the Lotus Sutra in my life so experientially I know it to be true:)
gassho
Rory
Namu Kanzeon Bosatsu
Chih-I:
The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
Paul, Groner "The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture"eds. Tanabe p. 58
https://www.tendai-usa.org/
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nichirenista
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Re: Religious transference: Nichiren Buddhism and Catholicis

Post by nichirenista »

I'm glad to know that my comments about "male culture" are interesting to you. Naturally, my comments cannot be generalized to all males, throughout all places, and all time. I'm sure there are some males who would completely disagree with everything I've written. But what I think is weird about it all, is that in my experience, underneath this thin veneer of masculine aggression toward one another, is a tremendous sense of compassion and brotherhood. For example, guys on football teams bond in a very deep way; I wrote earlier that I have never felt closer to a fellow male than while in a martial arts class and while enacting harming him. That's weird. I think it's weird that violent rituals are apparently required for that bonding to take place between men.

I don't think my opinions of the way women interact are skewed, but that I am describing the interaction of women within a particular setting (my family; the Japanese Buddhist temple) -- a setting which is certainly heterosexual and patriarchal. But one of my five sisters I referred to is actually a lesbian, and while in my late teens I worked with and a very helpful therapist who was both Jewish and a lesbian; naturally, I fell in love with her…. LOL I'm not kidding. She explained to me that this was common in therapy, falling in love with your therapist. And much to my upset at the time, the feeling was not reciprocal. LOL

With regard to the possibility that the Buddha may have been sexist, Karen Armstrong actually writes that at the beginning of the book: we cannot actually be sure what exactly the Buddha did actually say. But I do believe he was ultimately a historical figure, and I believe that time period was very sexist against women, and so I think it is only logical that he himself would have been sexist by today's standards. I mean, it was described as a radical act that he let women join at all; that's how sexist the time was. The reason this doesn't bother me is because to my understanding Nichiren Buddhism is ultimately focused on the cosmic Buddha, not the historical man, and Nichiren himself is said to have not been sexist against women.
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Re: Religious transference: Nichiren Buddhism and Catholicis

Post by illarraza »

Since its Memorial Day in the good ole USA, I think that on the battle lines and to a lesser extent in team sports, within health care teams, and in police and fire departments, one finds true brotherhood and selflessness, albeit in a tribal manner. Very little "bro-hood" is found other than here and in a few other specialized circumstances.

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nichirenista
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Re: Religious transference: Nichiren Buddhism and Catholicis

Post by nichirenista »

illarraza wrote:Since its Memorial Day in the good ole USA, I think that on the battle lines and to a lesser extent in team sports, within health care teams, and in police and fire departments, one finds true brotherhood and selflessness, albeit in a tribal manner. Very little "bro-hood" is found other than here and in a few other specialized circumstances.

Illarraza
The younger generation is challenging these notions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJVt8kUAm9Q
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nichirenista
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Re: Religious transference: Nichiren Buddhism and Catholicis

Post by nichirenista »

Well, I've made a fine mess out of this thread. Sorry everyone.

I forgot to mention the only reason I referred to the fact that the temple was caught up in female drama between the church ladies and the female sensei….

I turned to a certain person several months ago, and shared the situation. I was told that this is the way women often operate, that the church ladies at the temple would resent a female who did not come from their own population being placed in the superior position (but that they would not have the same kind of resentment for a male who did not come from their own ranks). I was told that in a situation like this, the church ladies and the female sensei would involve a male, and then look to that male for leadership, but that he would actually end up leading by following.

This was almost a psychic prediction. It was exactly what ended up happening. I ended up writing an impassioned a letter to the main headquarters and the board, complaining about the disrespectful behavior of the female board member who likened and the Lotus Sutra to Greek mythology. In essence, I ended up doing what the sensei herself (and many of the church ladies) would've liked to have done; in essence, I ended up leading a group of females by following a group of females. And I realized this was right back to me and my childhood, trying to make peace with a group of sisters who were always at each others' throats.

Look, I'm sorry if it's politically incorrect or ruffles anyone's feathers. But this is the experience I lived through, and I have witnessed it among groups of females as far back as I can remember. It is almost a Universal observation among males that women do not like each other. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hmlPtRu1SQ) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zD_IRKBz50)

(With regard to the lesbian population, even in the rarefied lesbian world, things such as education and income bracket play a factor. My lesbian sister is not middle class; she has a very lesbian profession: she is a truck driver, and she is so masculine that most at first mistake her for being male. One of my most vivid childhood memories is seeing her and her girlfriend slugging [punching] each other out on the front lawn. I grew up among many lesbians and I saw endless drama there as well.)
Myoho-Nameless
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Re: Religious transference: Nichiren Buddhism and Catholicis

Post by Myoho-Nameless »

nichirenista wrote:Well, I've made a fine mess out of this thread. Sorry everyone.
I said it before, I will say it again. You actually start some of the most interesting threads. To me at least. Even when we disagree, to me its painfully obvious there aint no patriarchy.

I think the behaviors you note come down to differences between the sexes. they exist. there are individual exceptions of course, but they exist. I believe more of it is nature rather than nurture than we are willing to accept, I also believe what is nature can be addressed. Civilization asks us to control our instincts and I think a large part of Buddhism is just that as well. Men are task oriented, we evolved extracting resources from the natural environment, to a large degree women have been doing this too, but its mostly been the male occupation. Women's environment is the social one, though men have been social as well, its just women are more social. They evolved extracting resources from the social environment. They elicit more sympathy, one reason the men's rights movement is something you probably never heard of or if you did, the reason it is so small is that people genuinely just don't care as much about men (it also has attracted a lot of whackadoos). So, we could conjecture that the female pecking order is more social, that is their battlefield, that is why they have all the power to decide what is socially acceptable and what is deviant.

"evo psych" as it is called is controversial however.

I have heard the ancient chinese character denoting "discord" implies two women under one roof. People are less mature these days, dysfunctions of the sexes might be addressed by the presence of older experienced men and women. my two cents. Your temple might just not be "mature". you can have years on you and still be dysfunctional.
nichirenista wrote: One of my most vivid childhood memories is seeing her and her girlfriend slugging [punching] each other out on the front lawn. I grew up among many lesbians and I saw endless drama there as well.
The LGBT community has many issues of it's own. Its a shame. It could boil down to not feeling safe in society. To the rejection of friends and family after coming out. I think they should be more open about these things, there is higher domestic abuse and divorce in that community, for gay men its something like 30% higher abuse rates and in the lesbian community its a staggering 200% or thereabouts higher than the heterosexual community.
"Keep The Gods Out Of It. Swear On Your Heads. Which I Will Take If You Break Your Vow."- Geralt of Rivia
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Re: Religious transference: Nichiren Buddhism and Catholicis

Post by nichirenista »

Thank you for saying that you enjoy the threads I start. I get frustrated with myself because I think I take too long to say what I'm trying to say, and in the process I have a tendency to "bring in everything and the kitchen sink."

I think I also get frustrated with the non-linear quality of my life, the relatively bizarre abundance of diversity that has made up my life and rendered me virtually incapable of having a straightforward conversation with anyone. Sometimes I read back my posts and can't believe what I just wrote: "my stepfather was Mexican; I was introduced to Japanese Buddhist while a child in Japan; I came of age in the black community; I have five sisters, one of whom is a lesbian truck driver; I fell in love with my Jewish lesbian therapist; I'm only slightly less muscular than "The Rock"; and somewhere along the line I managed to have a miserable Irish Catholic childhood?" That's all very weird. LOL But it's all very true as well…. It's difficult for others to ever anticipate where I'm coming from, because I virtually come from everywhere.

And now I've done it again. Brought in everything and the kitchen sink.

I should've just mentioned earlier in the thread that a prediction someone made to me came true: I was told a group of females at the Buddhist temple would resent a female (the sensei) coming from outside of their ranks and then taking the superior position over them, but they would not have resented it if it had been a man; and in a situation like this, the women would involve a male (me), look to him for leadership, and he would end up leading by following; it was also explained to me that my passion for learning about Nichiren Buddhism put me in the unfortunate position of exposing the weakness of the sensei with regard to her teaching abilities -- and the church ladies would use that weakness against the sensei, which is what happened. It was amazing that all of this came true.

I suppose one reason I have had trouble being straightforward about the situation at the temple, is because I know the Nichiren Buddhist community is relatively small, and I've been concerned about maybe getting too specific here and it all getting back to the temple. And I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, don't want to come across as being mean, and there was always the option that I may want to return for a service here and there. But I've now made up my mind that that isn't going to happen; there's no looking back; no returning; and so I feel like I speak openly about it now.

But I think the decision to not return is only part of the solution for me. The truth is that my participation with the temple was actually downright traumatic. In retrospect, I cannot believe the insanity and neurotic behavior I witnessed. And it is so ironic because I specifically chose this branch of Nichiren Buddhism because I wanted to avoid the controversies I've heard about in Soka Gakkai. I suppose what I need is a debriefing.

Even though I was introduced to the figure of the Buddha while a child in Japan, I am of course a Westerner. And I think that us Westerners have a tendency to put Buddhism on a pedestal, incorrectly assuming that Buddhist institutions are not prone to the same kind of neurotic infighting that happens in all of our institutions. I read somewhere that a criticism a Tibetan man had, was that those of us in the west have a tendency to turn Tibetan Buddhists into noble savages. Lo and behold, they are only people after all.

There is also the issue of vulnerability. When one is as idealistic about Buddhism as I was when I first went to this temple, one has a tendency to take down all defenses once they step in the temple. For analogy, had I been entering into a corporate business office I would have known I was entering hostile territory and would not have taken down my defenses. But one wouldn't expect a Buddhist temple to be a hostile environment; and so I took down my defenses -- and walked into a viper's nest.

In all honesty, my participation in this temple almost killed my interest in Nichiren Buddhism, or any form of Buddhism at all. I remember thinking, "if this is what practice of Buddhism does to people, if the sensei herself was raised in this tradition in Japan and questions if it really works and has ended up with a nasty disposition, maybe I need to stop doing this."

I'm going to make another generalization that will probably upset some people, but so be it: there weren't many men at this temple. Well, there weren't many people at this temple to begin with. But the people who were there were mostly female; it's a general observation that most churchgoers are in fact female. I therefore sometimes look back at my participation in this temple and ask myself what on earth I was doing hanging out with a bunch of middle-aged, mostly Japanese women. Of course it turned out unusual, because the scenario itself is unusual; it was unusual that I was there to begin with. But at some level it was all about reconnecting with my childhood experience in Japan when I was introduced to Buddhism. I think the temple fulfilled that role in my life, and that was the only reason I held on; and once that was fulfilled, it was time for me to leave….

* * * *

About the gay community, my exposure to the gay community comes by way of my lesbian sister. I'm going to take a wild guess that Rory is college educated and therefore middle class. My lesbian sister is not. I don't think she even finished high school. She ended up being a truck driver because she's dyslexic and can't read very well. My point being, the segment of the gay community I was exposed to is not the segment that I believe for Rory comes from. I grew up seeing a working-class gay community that was plagued by drug use, chain-smoking, and violence. There were of course some positive things I was exposed to. But when speaking of high drama, the church ladies at the Japanese Buddhist temple have nothing on the gay community I was exposed to.
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Re: Religious transference: Nichiren Buddhism and Catholicis

Post by Masaru »

So, it seems that, now that I'm actually in a position to give a complete response, there's no need. Nichirenista finally made the leap from seeing the catty behavior around him to explicating the implications of his participation in that kind of drama, which his childhood experiences demanded he habitually ignore. Nameless and some of Nichirenista's perspecitve, more or less, covered the Feminism/gender front. We got to the bottom of the issue and we didn't even have to call Maury Povich to mediate.

:thumbsup: ?

I definitely identify with Nichirenista's need to launch into dealing with the assumptions of people's underlying worldview and frame before being able to accurately convey one's own experience. Women do bicker, incessantly. But even we men have our moments.
nichirenista wrote:I turned to a certain person several months ago, and shared the situation. I was told that this is the way women often operate, that the church ladies at the temple would resent a female who did not come from their own population being placed in the superior position (but that they would not have the same kind of resentment for a male who did not come from their own ranks). I was told that in a situation like this, the church ladies and the female sensei would involve a male, and then look to that male for leadership, but that he would actually end up leading by following.
Strange. Almost as if an idea was being introduced to you in order to gauge your reaction to a preconceived plan.
This was almost a psychic prediction. It was exactly what ended up happening. I ended up writing an impassioned a letter to the main headquarters and the board, complaining about the disrespectful behavior of the female board member who likened and the Lotus Sutra to Greek mythology. In essence, I ended up doing what the sensei herself (and many of the church ladies) would've liked to have done; in essence, I ended up leading a group of females by following a group of females. And I realized this was right back to me and my childhood, trying to make peace with a group of sisters who were always at each others' throats.
Stranger still. Almost as if you were being used as some sort of implement, or instrument, for carrying out their will. Then, perhaps tool is the word I'm looking for. It's as if they realized that you're a tool, or could be made to act like one, and sought to activate that disposition for their own ends; first proposing the idea to you in a quasi-subliminal way, looking for visceral signs of tacit agreement, and then following through as you predictably fell into line without entirely realizing it. Of course, I'm just joking. Women aren't actually that manipulative. Most of what you were going through was likely being caused by your body's reaction to photonic exposure due to light from Venus being refracted from swamp gas in the area.

Despite what contemporary scholars may think, I believe that the historical Buddha must have had a masterful intuitive grasp of power dynamics and, realizing the full gravity of what would have be asked of him if he chose to pursue a worldly life, left behind, among other things, his women. John Steinbeck said, "It has always seemed strange to me... the things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty, understanding and feeling, are the concomitants of failure in our system. And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness, egotism and self-interest, are the traits of success. And while men admire the quality of the first they love the produce of the second." But I think the reason that we admire these qualities so much is because, in pursuing the things that bring us the greatest power, we not only provoke deep hatred in others, but we also internalize it, often with nowhere to alleviate this pain. Hence why even Alexander would admire Diogenes.

I believe the Buddha knew that women, most of all, would admire him the most for the qualities that would cause him to suffer internally the most, hinder his free development as he sought his way to recognizing his eternal identity, and in an unconscious and indirect way, change him into a kind of great tool just as surely as male sexuality will strip down a nubile female given, or not given, any excuse.

So, (though he may not have had any choice in the grand scheme of things,) he chose to become the Buddha.
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Re: Religious transference: Nichiren Buddhism and Catholicis

Post by Myoho-Nameless »

I JUST had a church lady come to my door.......offered to do something, if I needed help (like what? chores? what the heck?).

Nichirenista, I too have had various issues with "buddhism" that made me wonder why the feck I even bother. I like to think these might be necessary steps on our journey. The cosmic Buddha you say that is more tolerant of women than Sidh, the LS describes him as "the father of this world" ( oh nuuuuu!! patriarchy!), in these situations, he might be being fatherly to us, the house is burning dawg, gtfo. The Buddha's fatherly love. But like....life is a journey and all that (I almost gave up on nintendo, I was distraught by it, my cousin, uncharacteristically wise, told me "life is a journey", I need not be attached to staying a nintendork or leaving. I stayed, Smash Bros and Mario Cart were their saving grace) whatever hang ups we have with the buddha, dharma, and sangha, might just be what we need on our jouneys and might end up being a thing we actually look back on and see how it helped us grow as people.

or something gay like that.

Speaking of gay. My earlier comments on the gay community should not be taken as any disdain on my part for homosexuals or bisexuals. Not to sound like I am worshiping on the altar of liberal tolerance in penance for my comments. I am in furry fandom. the non straights actually outnumber the straights in many "studies" of our fandom. for some reason. So I am "surrounded" by them and I like them.
"Keep The Gods Out Of It. Swear On Your Heads. Which I Will Take If You Break Your Vow."- Geralt of Rivia
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nichirenista
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Re: Religious transference: Nichiren Buddhism and Catholicis

Post by nichirenista »

Masaru wrote:So, it seems that, now that I'm actually in a position to give a complete response, there's no need. Nichirenista finally made the leap from seeing the catty behavior around him to explicating the implications of his participation in that kind of drama, which his childhood experiences demanded he habitually ignore. Nameless and some of Nichirenista's perspecitve, more or less, covered the Feminism/gender front. We got to the bottom of the issue and we didn't even have to call Maury Povich to mediate.

Strange. Almost as if an idea was being introduced to you in order to gauge your reaction to a preconceived plan.

Stranger still. Almost as if you were being used as some sort of implement, or instrument, for carrying out their will.
In some strange way, I sort of feel like it was meant to be the way it was, because the experience at this temple made me face issues from my past that I needed to face. It made me face the strange role of attempted peacekeeper between my warring sisters (I say "attempted," because I never succeeded), and it ultimately even made me face why I ended up in Japan when I was a little boy to begin with -- by way of something one of my five sisters was doing in Japan at the time. Truth is, I hadn't even wanted to go to Japan when I was a little boy. So, it was bizarre in its dysfunction (the temple), but maybe in some cosmic way it was meant to be.

We can pontificate for the rest of our lives as to whether it's nature or nurture that makes women act this way, but the bottom line is that women do act this way. This is my experience, and I am not some misogynous jerk for simply relating my experience. The bottom line is that they did not want a female sensei, and the sensei could feel this, and this added an underlying tension that wouldn't have been there if the sensei had been male. Actually, it was verging on paranoia. So, I don't know if I was used as "a tool" per se. I think I was just dealing with women (Japanese and Japanese American women) who are so entrenched in a sexist culture that they didn't know any other way.

It was a good opportunity for growth for me. But I'm glad it's over.
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Re: Religious transference: Nichiren Buddhism and Catholicis

Post by Masaru »

Myoho-Nameless wrote:Speaking of gay. My earlier comments on the gay community should not be taken as any disdain on my part for homosexuals or bisexuals. Not to sound like I am worshiping on the altar of liberal tolerance in penance for my comments. I am in furry fandom. the non straights actually outnumber the straights in many "studies" of our fandom. for some reason. So I am "surrounded" by them and I like them.
If you didn't bother to tell me this, I would never, ever bother to ask you. In fact, I would probably try to tune you out and pretend I wasn't aware of what you said.
But like....life is a journey and all that (I almost gave up on nintendo, I was distraught by it, my cousin, uncharacteristically wise, told me "life is a journey", I need not be attached to staying a nintendork or leaving.
It is possible to waste an incredible amount of time on a gaming advice.

But you're right. We've all got hangups, and, I mean if the world wasn't full of all kinds of f***ing tools, where would we be? It is not only necessary to learn humility, but to provide others with opportunities to do so as well.

I'll be lurking. :namaste:
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Re: Religious transference: Nichiren Buddhism and Catholicis

Post by nichirenista »

Myoho-Nameless wrote:Nichirenista, I too have had various issues with "buddhism" that made me wonder why the feck I even bother. I like to think these might be necessary steps on our journey.
I think that it's just an issue of there not being a utopia anywhere. Of course we face issues in Buddhism and Buddhist institutions, because Buddhists are human beings. I think that for us Westerners we are inclined to turn people from the East into wise, Noble Savages.

About the gay community. I have nothing against the gay community either. I was just pointing out that the gay community is like the rest of society. It is not homogenous. There are poor gays, rich gays, middle-class gay, etc. I have been exposed to middle class, professional gays. But the sister I grew up with was not that.

I have been exposed to so many walks of life since I was a little boy, and I am so racially/culturally diverse myself that it's virtually impossible for me to be a bigot. My stepfather was Mexican American, and I'm half-Italian, with Native American and even a small about of African American ancestry. I'm the poster child for diversity. In point of fact, Cesar Chavez used me as that -- the poster child of diversity -- when I was a little boy in San Jose, California, which is where my Mexican American stepfather came to know Cesar Chavez and befriend him.
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Re: Religious transference: Nichiren Buddhism and Catholicis

Post by rory »

Oh gods please don't tell me you don't have anything against the gay community then describe 'them' or women and then describe 'them' and feminism. And it's not a very nice description, this whole thread now is starting to reek of misogyny. Kindly stop it; join a MRA if that's what you want.

First of all I'm a woman, I attended an all girls secondary and high schools with an all female faculty, and 90% of those women were probably heterosexual and it was a great supportive experience. You all know nothing of what women/girls are like when they are together away from societal competition for males. As for my social sphere, yes it is middle-class and multi-ethnic-racial, peaceful and supportive.

I am more than sure that lesbians from 1st gen immigrant and poor backgrounds have real problems; namely acceptance! And there is a lot of self-loathing and what sadly goes with it. But that has nothing to do with them being women but their class.

Finally men; be as bro-some as you wish! More power to you, I do hope men find the warmth and support that women friends enjoy. But do it without tearing down women. You notice I don't have a bad word for men, I've a wonderful father, and great male mentors and male friends in my life.

Study and practice and fix yourselves, rather than blame others.
gassho
Rory
Namu Kanzeon Bosatsu
Chih-I:
The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
Paul, Groner "The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture"eds. Tanabe p. 58
https://www.tendai-usa.org/
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Re: Religious transference: Nichiren Buddhism and Catholicis

Post by nichirenista »

rory wrote:Oh gods please don't tell me you don't have anything against the gay community then describe 'them' or women and then describe 'them' and feminism. And it's not a very nice description, this whole thread now is starting to reek of misogyny.
Oh, please, I'm hardly a misogynist and hardly anti-gay; I once marched in a gay pride parade with my sister, and my mother joined P-Flag. Are there some other pronouns you would prefer me to use? What pronouns can one use while describing a group to which one does not belong? I am neither female nor lesbian, so I cannot use the pronoun "we" to describe these communities.

Methinks that what probably has you upset is the fact that I mentioned something that my former therapist, who is Jewish and lesbian* from New York, once said is quite taboo to talk about within the lesbian community: domestic abuse. She said that domestic abuse does indeed occur in the lesbian community, but that in an attempt to put forward a unified front to the rest of society, it is something not spoken of openly in the lesbian community. (During my high school years I was a member of the Gay straight alliance, and I noticed an endless drama with the young lesbians. The gay guys, nevermind: atomic drama. But then again, all teenagers are dramatic.)

My former therapist's name is Ruth Gibian. You may contact her here if you have issue with what she has said: http://www.ruthgibian.com/main.html

I have a right to acknowledge and honor my experience. Growing up I saw many troubled gays and lesbians; it's common knowledge that the suicide rate among the gay community is very high, and there is an epidemic in Portland of homeless gay teens who have been thrown out by their parents. And I saw domestic abuse.

Maybe the lesbian community you live in is a utopia. But I didn't see that.

I know my feelings and I will adamantly not allow you to put words into my mouth. I have already said that this is a therapist that I also fell in love with. (*She self-identified as a lesbian but then found herself fall in love with a man, and then began to call herself bisexual. I later asked her, "so you're attracted to both men and women?" She adamantly responded, "No! I'm attracted to women, and one man." And despite the fact that she openly identified as "bisexual" and took pains to make clear her sense of allegiance with the gay community, when she partnered with a man she was all but disowned by the community. Everything I've mentioned about her here in this post are things she spoke about openly in public forums.)

PS: If indeed the lesbian community you refer to was utopia, your experience does not apply while attempting to make sense of behavior of heterosexual women within the context of a traditional Japanese Buddhist temple.

PPS: My former therapist is not only lesbian and Jewish, but also Buddhist.
Myoho-Nameless
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Re: Religious transference: Nichiren Buddhism and Catholicis

Post by Myoho-Nameless »

its good to know I have a woman's permission to be an MRA :rolling:

which I am not, I don't like labels but my money is on the MGTOW approach.
"Keep The Gods Out Of It. Swear On Your Heads. Which I Will Take If You Break Your Vow."- Geralt of Rivia
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nichirenista
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Re: Religious transference: Nichiren Buddhism and Catholicis

Post by nichirenista »

I thought she told us to join the NRA (National Rifle Association). LOL I didn't even know what MRA is. Had to Google that one.
Masaru
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Re: Religious transference: Nichiren Buddhism and Catholicis

Post by Masaru »

rory wrote:Oh gods please don't tell me you don't have anything against the gay community then describe 'them' or women and then describe 'them' and feminism. And it's not a very nice description, this whole thread now is starting to reek of misogyny. Kindly stop it; join a MRA if that's what you want.

First of all I'm a woman, I attended an all girls secondary and high schools with an all female faculty, and 90% of those women were probably heterosexual and it was a great supportive experience. You all know nothing of what women/girls are like when they are together away from societal competition for males. As for my social sphere, yes it is middle-class and multi-ethnic-racial, peaceful and supportive.

I am more than sure that lesbians from 1st gen immigrant and poor backgrounds have real problems; namely acceptance! And there is a lot of self-loathing and what sadly goes with it. But that has nothing to do with them being women but their class.

Finally men; be as bro-some as you wish! More power to you, I do hope men find the warmth and support that women friends enjoy. But do it without tearing down women. You notice I don't have a bad word for men, I've a wonderful father, and great male mentors and male friends in my life.

Study and practice and fix yourselves, rather than blame others.
gassho
Rory
Oh gods please don't tell me you don't have anything against the straight community then describe 'them' or men and then describe 'them' and MRAs. And it's not a very nice description, this whole thread now is starting to reek of misandry. Kindly stop it; join a Feminist separatist group if that's what you want.

First of all I'm a man, I attended an all boys secondary and high schools with an all male faculty, and 10% of those men were probably homosexual and it was a great supportive experience. You all know nothing of what men/boys are like when they are together away from societal competition for females. As for my social sphere, yes it is multi-ethnic-racial, peaceful and supportive.

I am more than sure that straight men from 1st gen immigrant and poor backgrounds have real problems; namely acceptance! And there is a lot of self-loathing and what sadly goes with it. But that has nothing to do with them being men but their class.

Finally women; be as sister-some as you wish! More power to you, I do hope men find the warmth and support that men friends enjoy. But do it without tearing down men. You notice I don't have a bad word for women, I've a wonderful mother, and great female mentors and female friends in my life.

Study and practice and fix yourselves, rather than blame others.
gassho
Masaru
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Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:10 am

Re: Religious transference: Nichiren Buddhism and Catholicis

Post by Masaru »

Freud seemed to have reduced everything to sex. It makes you wonder if the reason Europe developed a dynamic scientific tradition wasn't actually the Catholic church's policy of strict monogamy. Maybe there's a link between gender issues and the filters of the Fermi paradox.
Masaru
Posts: 237
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:10 am

Re: Religious transference: Nichiren Buddhism and Catholicis

Post by Masaru »

Before I forget: I've been meaning to share this within one context or another, but always forget. It just popped into my head, and being relevant to the overall subject of any discussion in the forum, I wanted to share it before it sinks back under the waves of my memory.

http://www.synthesiscenter.org/articles/0130.pdf
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