Dharma and long-term economic recession.

Re: Dharma and long-term economic recession.

Postby OregonBuddhist » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:45 am

Your writing is often more succinct, and just pain better written, than anything I can find in books. Why aren't you writing books yourself? :shrug:

Queequeg wrote:
Masaru wrote: Not if you're a charmer.

:facepalm:


OK, humoring...

All you need is Sandaihiho - Three Great Hidden Dharmas - 1. Gohonzon (Object of Veneration/Devotion), 2. Daimoku (August Title of the Sutra), and 3. Kaidan (Precept Platform).

Depending on your interpretation of Nichiren, this can mean different things. I'll give my take. Sectarians rooting for their home teams will reproach me.

1. In Nichiren's mature thought, the Gohonzon is:

The Treasure Tower suspended in the air over the Saha world. The Title of the Lotus Sutra 妙法蓮華経 (Myoho Renge Kyo) appears in the middle of the tower, flanked by the Tathagatas Shakyamuni (right) and Prabhutaratna (left), attended by the four leaders of the Bodhisattvas who emerged from the Earth, Bodhisattvas Visistacaritra, Anantacaritra, Visuddhacaritra, and Supratisthitacaritra. Manjusri, Maitreya, and other bodhisattvas are seated below. Bodhisattvas who are attendants of Trace Buddhas are on the ground. Buddhas of the Ten Directions are also on the ground.

When Nichiren inscribed his Jukkaimandara (10 Worlds Mandalas) he also included Zhiyi (Tendai Daishi) and Saicho (Dengyo Daishi) also seated on the ground along with various protective deities like the Dragon King's Daughter, Kishimojin and her ten daughters. Fudo Myo'o and Aizen Myo'o flank the entire assembly, and the four corners of the mandala are guarded by the Four Heavenly Kings.

Like many mandalas, Nichiren's mandala is filled with symbolism. In the whole, it is an exposition on the Three Thousand in the Single moment of Mind (一念三千) The tower suspended in the air indicates that the Trikaya Root Buddha (本佛), ie. Shakyamuni, is unconditioned, timeless, unarisen, non-perishing, eternal, as are all the other beings suspended in the air. The beings on the ground symbolize the Buddha's functions in the conditioned realm, his Upaya (skillful means) ("Sometimes I speak of myself, sometimes of others..."). Fudo represents the "Nirvana is Samsara" and Aizen represents "Earthly Desires are Enlightenment"). If you understand how Zhiyi derived Three Thousand in the Single Moment of Mind, the symbolism on the Gohonzon is apparent.

If you can "read" Nichiren's Mandala, you don't need any other texts. With that said, the fact is, you need teachers, texts, etc. to explain it to you.

2. Daimoku - This literally means the "August Title", and in Nichiren's case, specifically refers to the title of the Lotus Sutra. However, when we say "Daimoku", it also includes "南無" ("Nam/Namu" - there are other threads to debate what's right). Appending this to the Daimoku turns this into a statement of devotion or dedication or homage. Nichiren's basic practice is chanting this formula "Nammyohorengekyo". Whether you understand what "Myohorengekyo" means or not, chanting it puts you on the orientation of "Right View".

When chanted before the Gohonzon, this becomes the actualization of Enlightened Activity. It can also include Contemplation of Ichinen Sanzen, and any number of other practices that are Opened to Reveal the True... Heck, if you've really penetrated this wisdom, you could make Christmas Midnight Mass into Enlightened Activity, or even Roasting the Condemned in Avici; the enlightenment of a Dung Beetle, rolling up little balls of excrement and happily slurping it down... Mahasiddhas will be able to relate to this Beyond Good and Evil stuff.

3. Kaidan - Literally, this means the platform on which monks/nuns take the precepts. However, because in Nichiren Buddhism which builds upon Saicho's Bodhisattva Precepts of Sudden and Perfect Enlightenment, anywhere the Lotus Sutra is practiced becomes the precept platform. In particular, when one chants the Daimoku in front of the Gohonzon, that place is the Kaidan.

So, at the minimum, in terms of material objects, you need the Gohonzon - Nichiren's Mandala. The Daimoku and Kaidan come into being through the words and actions of the practitioner.

More comprehensively, you need teachers, and books, and fellow practitioners, and beings to teach, (as well as beings to persecute you) to fully practice. All of these are of course included in a broad sense in the Sandaihiho - which in the broadest sense encompasses all the Dharmadhatu (the Three Thousand). Taking this expansive interpretation, we end up with the Lotus Sutra being all life, and practice being all life. Living IS the Lotus Sutra, is the Buddha, is Threefold Inclusive Ultimate Reality, is True Aspect.

After all that, you come back out of the looking glass - where ever you go, there you are. :hi:

On more practical levels - maybe you consider its OK for you as a layman to arm yourself and protect the True Dharma... but only to defend a True Monk... Walking Dead style, or The Road http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0898367/

Do we really need to open up this Mahaparinirvana Sutra can of ethical worms? Last time we talked about this, our friend Dave had a meltdown.
OregonBuddhist
 
Posts: 130
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:28 pm
Location: Oregon

Re: Dharma and long-term economic recession.

Postby Masaru » Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:34 pm

PorkChop wrote:Wow, what a blatant re-writing of history.
You guys should look at the Republic of Texas Constitution some time, specifically the number of native Tejanos that signed the Texas Constitution - it wasn't all whitey.
A lot of people were sick of how the government in Mexico City was running things, both Texas and Coahuila seceded because they didn't like Santa Anna's power grab.
There are plenty of war heroes from the Texas Revolution that were native Tejanos; a lot of my friends are proud descendants of those natives.
Texas fought for its independence, it's not a land in occupation.


What you give is the Walt Disney version, yes. The reality is that the average Mestizo Tejano still suffered discrimination after the state entered the Union. For all of their fighting for both Independence from Mexico and as part of the Confederacy, they were still ultimately relegated to second class citizen status and treated with suspicion and contempt. The legal protections for blacks did not apply to them, they were legally considered white but in practice were classed as "colored" and were treated as such by the Anglo white establishment.

Image


PorkChop wrote:Sorry, I guess I must be missing something.
The first couple sentences of that blog post quote are wildly inaccurate.


Actually, the first few lines of the blog post are as follows:
The topic of last week’s post, the likely fate of Israel in the twilight years of American empire, makes a good example of more than one common theme. As I commented in that earlier discussion, Israel is one of several American client states for whom the end of our empire will also be the end of the line.

I can only assume from the context of your statements that 1) you're referring to the quotes I made from the blog post and that 2) you didn't read the entire blog post, which kind of makes me sad in a Stuart Smalley sort of way. I encourage you to read the entire blog post with an open mind. Keep in mind that he's talking about what is possible based on certain latent trends and undercurrents, not claiming to tell the future with certitude or being alarmist. But, from what is written, he seems to take into account everything you've mentioned but from the broader perspective of considering what is possible when latent forces become manifest and undercurrents become dominant.

The dangers of latent historical trends is the very reason the U.S. still has bases in Germany and Japan. Even Tejanos have not forgotten the past--anymore than Anglo-America has forgotten the 1 drop rule. Which, by the way, is the reason the current president is considered "black" and I mark the pan-racial, ethnic identifier "Hispanic" on various forms.

Once a pattern has been set within the collective unconscious, it can be a long time before it is broken, and often it continues to endure for as long as a culture or civilization exists:
http://youtu.be/kIzFz9T5rhI


PorkChop wrote:As far as the cartels, they do not really have the love of the people - at least not on this side of the border.
Even people I know from Juarez are particularly upset at the cartels having killed most of the economy there due to the complete disappearance of tourism.
Say what you want about the evils of the US, the military, the modern culture, or whatever; but I have a hard time seeing a band of murderers with relatively small support outside of their home territories taking over even San Antonio (with it's 6 military bases), let alone the whole state - which has some of the largest & most-populated cities in the US and a ton of military bases.

viniketa wrote:I live within a couple of hours of SA, and can confirm all this. Few here are anxious to secede; the ones who are are typically 30-something urban cowboys, with a very few old-timers thrown in.


The cartels are a blight to the growing middle class in Mexico. They undermine stability and present a constant threat to safety and the comfort of normalcy. The way one views the drug lords or even revolutionary figures such as "Pancho" Villa and Emiliano Zapata has everything to do with class. To the Mexican upper class, the historic figures of Emiliano Zapata (progenitor of Chiapa's famous "Zapatista Rebels" who are currently led by the masked "Subcomandante Marcos,") and Pancho Villa are seen as little more than troublemakers who were finally crushed, though perhaps not effectively enough. To the common people, they are immortalized heroes, champions of justice, examples of defiance against corrupt authority, and symbols of indigenous cultural and political self-assertion. The way these individuals are viewed depends on one's knowledge of history and relationship to it based on where one's interests lie.

To Mexico's upwardly mobile middle class and the upper class, the drug lords and their conflicts are a disturbing and embarrassing threat to public safety and civil society. (Or perhaps a messy but useful tool to the latter class? Le Hmmm...) To the underclass, however, they are outright heroes. If the global economy collapses, in which class direction do you think most people will begin to shift? Upwards into middle-classdom (even though there are no resources available to support this shift) or downward into the hellish slums of underclass poverty? At such a time, where do you think the allegiances of the common people, the outed and dispossessed, will lie?

When we consider the situation within a long-term perspective and in relation to the United States, we have to ask ourselves if scarce resources and lack of government support (or experiencing government oppression) tends to make people more civil or tends to incline them to fall back on more basic in-group out-group allegiances and encourage conflict amongst disparate racial and ethnic communities where friction already existed.

Le Hmm... Le mysteries of le universe...


Queequeg wrote:
O good man! In the past - innumerable, boundless, asamkhyas of kalpas past - there appeared in this town of Kusinagara a Buddha who was the Alms-deserving, the All-Enlightened One, the All-accomplished One, the Well-gone, the All-knower, the Unsurpassed One, the Best Trainer, the Teacher of Heaven and Earth, the Buddha-World-Honoured One, and whose name was "Tathagata of Joy-and-Benefit-Augmentation." At that time, the world was wide and gloriously pure, rich and peaceful. The people were at the height of prosperity and no hunger was felt. He [They] looked like the Bodhisattvas of the Land of Peace and Happiness. That Buddha-World-Honoured One stayed in the world for an innumerable length of time. Having taught the people, he entered Parinirvana between the twin sal trees. The Buddha having entered Nirvana, the teaching remained in the world for countless billions of years and in the last part of the remaining 40 years the Buddhist teaching had still not died. At that time, there was a bhiksu called "Enlightened-Virtuous", who upheld the precepts well and was surrounded by many of his relatives. He raised the lion’s roar and preached all the nine types of sutras. He taught, saying: "Do not keep menials, men or women, cows, sheep or whatever might go against the precepts." At that time there were many bhiksus who were acting contrary to the precepts. On hearing this, they entertained ill-will and came upon this bhiksu, brandishing swords and staffs. At that time, there was a king called "Virtuous". He heard of this. To protect Dharma, he came to where the bhiksu was delivering his sermons and fought against the evil doers so that the bhiksu did not suffer. The king, however, received wounds all over his body. Then the bhiksu, Enlightened-Virtuous, praised the king, saying: "Well done, well done, O King! You are a person who protects Wonderful Dharma. In days to come, you will become the unsurpassed utensil of Dharma." The king listened to his sermon and rejoiced. Then he died and was born in the land of Buddha Akshobhya and became his foremost disciple. The subjects of this king, his relatives and soldiers were all glad and did not retrogress in their Bodhichitta [resolve to gain Enlightenment]. When the day came to depart the world, they were born in the land of Buddha Akshobhya. At the time when Wonderful Dharma is about to die out, one should act and protect Dharma like this. O Kasyapa! The king at that time was I; the bhiksu who delivered the sermon was Buddha Kasyapa. O Kasyapa! One who guards Wonderful Dharma is recompensed with such incalculable fruition. That is why I today adorn my body in various ways and have perfectly achieved the indestructible Dharma-Body...

"O good man! That is why I allow those who uphold the precepts to be accompanied by the white-clad people [lay people, non-monks] with the sword and staff. Although all kings, ministers, rich lay men [grhapati] and upasakas may possess the sword and staff for protecting Dharma, I call this upholding the precepts. You may possess the sword and staff, “but do not take life”. If things are thus, we call this first-hand upholding of the precepts."

Mahaparinirvana Sutra http://www.nirvanasutra.net/convenient/Mahaparinirvana_Sutra_Yamamoto_Page_2007.pdf p.44-45

Is that what you're looking for? Buddha's instructions to pack.


More or less. Either this or something from The Protector. :jedi:


Queequeg wrote:One of my best friends is a half grown Honduran dude. When I saw Apocalypto, I joked that it was like they had cloned him to populate the cast.


Image
A certain man said to the priest Shungaku, "The Lotus Sutra Sect's character is not good because it's so fearsome." Shungaku replied, "It is by reason of its fearsome character that it is the Lotus Sutra Sect. If its character were not so, it would be a different sect altogether."
-- The Hagakure
User avatar
Masaru
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:10 am

Re: Dharma and long-term economic recession.

Postby Queequeg » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:44 pm

So, the other night as I was watching a pot of water boil, I started giving some thought to an end times story - The Road but with a Buddhist theme. Then it occurred to me - I saw that movie - its the dramatization of Nichiren's biography in Soka Gakkai's Human Revolution movie.

He was living at a time when Japan was ruled by a bunch of armed thugs, life was cheap, and plagues, earthquakes and devastating storms occurred with regularity. And the mongol horde was threatening invasion from the mainland. And they kept trying to kill him - capped with an execution order with a last minute reprieve.

About as dramatic a story as Hollywood could dream up.

The adaptation would be a Mexican Bodhisattva of the Earth, wandering the Southwest in the aftermath of the collapse of America. Would he/she be persecuted for decrying worship of Guadalupe? and San Malverde? It would be a macaroni Western crossed with Seven Samurai.

Oh, they already did that movie.

Well, you know. It could make for a great cross-genre mash-up. I'm gonna go pitch this!

By the way - Did anyone see Cloud Atlas? I swear, someone lifted some Nichiren Lotus story lines. Its all "attacked with sticks and staves" for planting seeds of Buddhahood; "lifetime after lifetime I've given my life for mundane concerns - how many times for the Lotus Sutra?"; afterlife at the Ceremony in the Air, etc.
Queequeg
 
Posts: 193
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Dharma and long-term economic recession.

Postby PorkChop » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:48 pm

Masaru wrote:What you give is the Walt Disney version, yes. The reality is that the average Mestizo Tejano still suffered discrimination after the state entered the Union.

The state entered the Union AFTER winning its independence.
Sounds more like a Union problem than the state's problem.
As far as the "Disney" version; I'll believe stories past down by the families of actual participants before I believe a blogger with an agenda. As far as recent “rewritings” of the story for Texas Independence, it’s not like these theories are without debate.
Masaru wrote:I can only assume from the context of your statements that 1) you're referring to the quotes I made from the blog post and that 2) you didn't read the entire blog post, which kind of makes me sad in a Stuart Smalley sort of way.

Yeah, sorry, I don't have much time for doomsday prophets with obvious agendas.
To the underclass, however, they are outright heroes.

Maybe we have different definitions of underclass or maybe we have different understandings of the cartels.
The cartels I'm thinking of are famous for hijacking buses and forcing people to fight to the death gladiator style, either recruiting the survivors or executing them as well.
Fear and hero-worship are entirely 2 different things.
If the global economy collapses, in which class direction do you think most people will begin to shift? Upwards into middle-classdom (even though there are no resources available to support this shift) or downward into the hellish slums of underclass poverty? At such a time, where do you think the allegiances of the common people, the outed and dispossessed, will lie?

To whoever best suits their self interests. You’d have a hard time convincing the average local that mercenaries like the cartels are ultimately in their best interests. They’ll bow down to fear for a while, but fear only goes so far. As soon as a promising candidate comes along, we’ll be right back in a feudal warlord system.
When we consider the situation within a long-term perspective and in relation to the United States, we have to ask ourselves if scarce resources and lack of government support (or experiencing government oppression) tends to make people more civil or tends to incline them to fall back on more basic in-group out-group allegiances and encourage conflict amongst disparate racial and ethnic communities where friction already existed.

My experience is that the communities are already too mixed for it to divide along racial lines; at least here. It’s more likely to be socio-economic.
I have to wonder if these scenarios are all predicated on a (sub?)conscious desire to see white Americans suffer, because your predictions are tantamount to the "great race wars" advocated by white supremacists.
User avatar
PorkChop
 
Posts: 661
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:17 pm
Location: Marietta, GA

Re: Dharma and long-term economic recession.

Postby Masaru » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:38 pm

PorkChop wrote:
Masaru wrote:What you give is the Walt Disney version, yes. The reality is that the average Mestizo Tejano still suffered discrimination after the state entered the Union.

The state entered the Union AFTER winning its independence.

I didn't say otherwise.

PorkChop wrote:Sounds more like a Union problem than the state's problem.

The "Union" and the "State" are really just the same people, maybe different generations, under different jurisdictions.

PorkChop wrote:As far as the "Disney" version; I'll believe stories past down by the families of actual participants before I believe a blogger with an agenda. As far as recent “rewritings” of the story for Texas Independence, it’s not like these theories are without debate.

It's not a "re-writing," but there are different interpretations to historical events, and from different perspectives. Not everyone likes the interpretations of others, though the facts still remain. I'll take the summary given by you as representative of your position. I accept it as such.

My point of bringing up the "evils of the past" is more to highlight possible weak points in social unity that might be exploited in the future. Maybe some people find the whole thing to just be an ugly topic, though I consider it to be a troubling and often ignored aspect of reality.

PorkChop wrote:
Masaru wrote:I can only assume from the context of your statements that 1) you're referring to the quotes I made from the blog post and that 2) you didn't read the entire blog post, which kind of makes me sad in a Stuart Smalley sort of way.

Yeah, sorry, I don't have much time for doomsday prophets with obvious agendas.

What agenda?

PorkChop wrote:
To the underclass, however, they are outright heroes.

Maybe we have different definitions of underclass or maybe we have different understandings of the cartels.
The cartels I'm thinking of are famous for hijacking buses and forcing people to fight to the death gladiator style, either recruiting the survivors or executing them as well.
Fear and hero-worship are entirely 2 different things.

Who is doing the forcing? The cartels aren't populated by stock characters. Where are they getting all of these recruits? I know but I'm asking you rhetorically. I'm pointing to something and asking anyone who wants to take a look at it to consider the implications. That's all, Chops.

Another thing: The people you know from Mexico, are they the people regularly jumping the border to make a living here in stints or are they, you know, people with steady jobs and a decent house and income? It's like if I say "I know some Americans." Well, are they from Compton or the Hamptons? This is what I'm getting at here, Chops.

PorkChop wrote:
If the global economy collapses, in which class direction do you think most people will begin to shift? Upwards into middle-classdom (even though there are no resources available to support this shift) or downward into the hellish slums of underclass poverty? At such a time, where do you think the allegiances of the common people, the outed and dispossessed, will lie?

To whoever best suits their self interests. You’d have a hard time convincing the average local that mercenaries like the cartels are ultimately in their best interests. They’ll bow down to fear for a while, but fear only goes so far. As soon as a promising candidate comes along, we’ll be right back in a feudal warlord system.

Well, yeah. "Cartel leaders," "warlord." They're just words, Chops. Really I think they're basically the same thing. That's what I'm saying.

PorkChop wrote:
When we consider the situation within a long-term perspective and in relation to the United States, we have to ask ourselves if scarce resources and lack of government support (or experiencing government oppression) tends to make people more civil or tends to incline them to fall back on more basic in-group out-group allegiances and encourage conflict amongst disparate racial and ethnic communities where friction already existed.

My experience is that the communities are already too mixed for it to divide along racial lines; at least here. It’s more likely to be socio-economic.
I have to wonder if these scenarios are all predicated on a (sub?)conscious desire to see white Americans suffer, because your predictions are tantamount to the "great race wars" advocated by white supremacists.

I made no predictions, I gave a hypothetical situation. Why would you assume I want white Americans to suffer? Mexicans come in every size, shape, and color. Q jokingly mentioned the "brown takeover," but really I'm not talking about a race war. I'm talking about the likelihood of a "culture war," and I see a conflict along those lines as being likely precisely because older Americans and the younger neo-conservative types are too trapped in this Roman-like "the Empire is immortal" American exceptionalism to realize how vulnerable we really are.

What I'm really getting at here is a feudal-cartel type system that grows out of the already highly organized, (tunnel burrowing, tran-atlantic submarine building,) crime in Mexico. I think that when people are hungry, hot, thirsty, and angry, there might be some oh-so-exploitable historical bait that would help justify that kind of expansion. Who knows how likely that is, but truth is often stranger than fiction.

As far as race, the old American ethos was based on Manifest destiny, hence the situation that the Tejanos ultimately found themselves in until the 60's, and granted, there has always been much more acceptance here than in, say, California. Too often white Americans react angrily to issues of race in a kind of "we should not speak of these things," sort of way. It is exactly that kind of lack of forthrightness and inability to face a difficult issue that poses a problem to national unity. Those white supremacists aren't just going to dematerialize. Once again, a small but tenacious variable to consider.

There's no hateraid in my cup, Chops, so please relax. You, personally, did not go around lynching people, cracking whips, tying up indigenous women and setting them on coolie built railroad tracks as you twirled your cane, tipped your top hat and stroked your thick, waxy handlebar mustache, snickering with glee. I'm not attacking or trying to make you feel bad.

Calmate, guey!
A certain man said to the priest Shungaku, "The Lotus Sutra Sect's character is not good because it's so fearsome." Shungaku replied, "It is by reason of its fearsome character that it is the Lotus Sutra Sect. If its character were not so, it would be a different sect altogether."
-- The Hagakure
User avatar
Masaru
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:10 am

Re: Dharma and long-term economic recession.

Postby PorkChop » Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:31 am

Masaru]The "Union" and the "State" are really just the same people, maybe different generations, under different jurisdictions.[/quote]

Not necessarily.
Republic of Texas would've been relatively recent immigration, but with the understanding that they were not American citizens.
State of Texas after joining the Union would've been 'mericans.
The term "state" can be used to refer to either.

[quote="Masaru wrote:
What agenda?

I dunno, the implication that people who live south of the Rio Grande have some grudge with the people north of the Rio Grande over territory that seceded from their centralist government.

Masaru wrote:Who is doing the forcing? The cartels aren't populated by stock characters. Where are they getting all of these recruits?

We both know the cartels are run by ex-military and ex-police (sometimes even current police).
But there are many who have been coerced into going along with them by force.

Masaru wrote:Another thing: The people you know from Mexico, are they the people regularly jumping the border to make a living here in stints or are they, you know, people with steady jobs and a decent house and income?


While I'm not sure who all is coming into the country legally or ilegally; the people I run into week in and week out range the full gamut of social class. From people with no discernable income & prison history, to day workers (construction), to stable professionals, and a rare few who are priveleged.

Well, yeah. "Cartel leaders," "warlord." They're just words, Chops. Really I think they're basically the same thing. That's what I'm saying.

Not really. You assume that people that are successful in current society will not do what it takes to be successful in the wake of society's collapse.
History does not agree with you.

Too often white Americans react angrily to issues of race in a kind of "we should not speak of these things," sort of way.

I think most just get tired of being called the bad guy for something they had no control over.
User avatar
PorkChop
 
Posts: 661
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:17 pm
Location: Marietta, GA

Re: Dharma and long-term economic recession.

Postby Myoho-Nameless » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:23 am

Oh hell nothing is going to happen. Just because the tyrant Obama was re elected or all hell is breaking loose in the SouthWest does not mean these days are at all abnormal...we are not going anywhere. China and Russia will collapse and maybe even break up into smaller nations. THEIR positions are weaker than people believe, the US's position is STRONGER than people believe. I am a bit of a Paleo-conservative and a soft nationalist but thats not why I believe that. This is normal, it just SEEMS like its all crap because we had a brief less than normal snort of coke after WW2 we have been trying to maintain, and like I said in "climate change, wer're doomed", I just think it is so easy for people to believe the end is near. especially us New Worlders, Franco, Latino, Germanic, Asian, whatever, because we prolly have a pirate gene floating around our DNA...we descend from badass adventurers and mercenaries and anyone with the guts to up and leave home and start a new life in a new land, thats why we love guns :guns: , love booze :cheers: , hate government :tantrum: , have drug cartels that chop people's heads off(?), and are paranoid as all hell :spy: . Just watch Doomsday preppers. This is why Asians and Europeans cannot stand us, they don't have as many pirate genes....I wonder if its a real gene or just a culture gene? I got myself thinking of telling my extended family and friends to make superquake kits and get ready for when Cascadia goes to hell....9.0+..scary shit. Paranoia can serve you or harm you, SGI calls it value creation.

Naw....another "golden age" is coming, we just need to admit we are a middle class nation and quit spending like we are an upper class nation. It will happen, next election, 10 years from now, twenty, thirty, whenever it is. Gods be good we will emerge stronger and more virtuous from the coming issues, but either way what we have today is noting out of the ordinary. Boomers, Xers, and Y ers are just going through a rude awakening and we are freaking out.

Talk about long term economic recession when Yellow Stone explodes...its a hot spot waiting to blow us all to the dark ages.

if anything society collapsing might actually be good, return people to nature, get them off their computers, get them to their gardens, get them spiritual and virtuous...if anything we should worry about spreading Buddhism during good times...Buddhas know how hard it is to teach Devas...They give them weird Flower Garland Sutras and other incomprehensible things.
Namu Myoho Renge Kyo
Myoho-Nameless
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:00 am
Location: Cascadia. Washington State, USA.

Re: Dharma and long-term economic recession.

Postby Masaru » Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:44 pm

PorkChop wrote:
Masaru wrote:Who is doing the forcing? The cartels aren't populated by stock characters. Where are they getting all of these recruits?

We both know the cartels are run by ex-military and ex-police (sometimes even current police).
But there are many who have been coerced into going along with them by force.

PorkChop wrote:
Well, yeah. "Cartel leaders," "warlord." They're just words, Chops. Really I think they're basically the same thing. That's what I'm saying.

Not really. You assume that people that are successful in current society will not do what it takes to be successful in the wake of society's collapse.
History does not agree with you.


Q brought up Shogunate Japan. The interesting thing about the Shogunate period is that for about half a millennium the Japanese lived under a system where the legitimate ruler was simply a de facto figurehead and the de facto ruler was, in actuality, the head of the military government. When you look at the structure of the military government you have relatively small pieces of land being controlled by a hierarchy of brutal, "thuggish" men who use violence to dominate the populace and who are bound more by family ties and codes of honor than by any sort of idea of an objective morality.

When one system breaks down, a new system will begin to form from the chaos. In Mexico, the cartels are an symptom of this kind of process. Where men as police are unable to effectively control petty criminals due to poor government support and high corruption they are more likely to seek success, money, and safety for their families via illegitimate means. Hierarchy--even if it is brutal and illegitimate--brings order, brings safety, brings peace, however imperfect that peace may be.

When success increasingly means condoning or resorting to brutality, the only obstacle to ambitious individuals is their ability or willingness to adapt to that reality. I'm not claiming that successful individuals will simply cease to function if the economy collapses. I'm bringing attention to the fact that such an event might mean paying dues or even working for "warlord" types who in modern times are identical to those we label as "crime bosses" or corrupt members of the legitimate civil or military defense force.

http://youtu.be/2WO0eMIUZzg

PorkChop wrote:
Masaru wrote:What agenda?

I dunno, the implication that people who live south of the Rio Grande have some grudge with the people north of the Rio Grande over territory that seceded from their centralist government.


That's not really an "agenda," it's more of a warning. Like if I said, "PorkChop, if you go into such-and-such neighborhood at night you are likely to be ganged up on, accosted, and possibly killed. Such-and-such people consider themselves different from you, are impoverished, angry, vengeful, and will justify their misdeeds by the conflicts between your ancestors and theirs. By all means, PorkChop, do not go there at night!"

From my experiences, Mexican nationals do remember--are aware of the historical fact--that Texas and the rest of the southwestern United States were once part of Mexico. I won't get into the different interpretations of the significance of the Mexican-American war or of Texas' independence, but there is a general feeling amongst Mexican nationals that their presence is justified in the American southwest. I doubt that any part of the southwest would ever secede or attempt to rejoin Mexico because of Mexican influence, but I do see that the roots of Hispanic influence run deep enough in the southwest to have a progressively balkanizing effect as American prosperity declines.

Myoho-Nameless wrote:This is normal, it just SEEMS like its all crap because we had a brief less than normal snort of coke after WW2 we have been trying to maintain, and like I said in "climate change, wer're doomed", I just think it is so easy for people to believe the end is near. especially us New Worlders, Franco, Latino, Germanic, Asian, whatever, because we prolly have a pirate gene floating around our DNA...we descend from badass adventurers and mercenaries and anyone with the guts to up and leave home and start a new life in a new land, thats why we love guns :guns: , love booze :cheers: , hate government :tantrum: , have drug cartels that chop people's heads off(?), and are paranoid as all hell :spy: . Just watch Doomsday preppers. This is why Asians and Europeans cannot stand us, they don't have as many pirate genes....I wonder if its a real gene or just a culture gene?


Image
What pirate genes?
A certain man said to the priest Shungaku, "The Lotus Sutra Sect's character is not good because it's so fearsome." Shungaku replied, "It is by reason of its fearsome character that it is the Lotus Sutra Sect. If its character were not so, it would be a different sect altogether."
-- The Hagakure
User avatar
Masaru
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:10 am

Re: Dharma and long-term economic recession.

Postby Myoho-Nameless » Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:55 pm

I don't know the gene's name...far as I know the idea is still a theory, although I think they have in fact confirmed there is a "warrior" gene in some people...something about how happiness juice in your brain is not done a way with fast enough and can sometimes devolve into unhappiness juice and make you angry. I am not a geneticists at all, but I like the notion of culture genes. Memes perhaps. although some memes, like religion, do not change other culture genes, or they only weaken them. Germanic society has always been a hard drinking hard fighting democratic society, back to Roman days in fact, and Christianity did not get rid of that overnight. Sometimes these old habits ignore facts. To use some examples from this conversation, the notion that the South West was stolen from Mexico by the US and Mexicans feel justified in coming here illegally or something (sorry if thats an incorrect generalization..here in Cascadia, although Cinco el Mayo is bigger than St patties day, there is a much larger Asian influence than a Latino one...sometimes Southerners get angry when Yankees talk about slavery...I am not a S Westerner or a Texan or Latino..in fact I have more in common with people from BC Canada than I do with So Cal USA) sort of overlooks the fact that Mexico stole it from someone else. As far as I know, Apache people hated Mexicans more than they hated white folks. way back when in the nichiren sangha (RIP) we talked about how Japanese people are just ok with iron fisted rulers even today, despite being a democracy (I think in the context of explaining why the SGI can have a cultist devotion to Ikeda at times). There might be a Confucian culture gene where that is wanted, even people who don't identify as confucian, North Korea's Dear Leader, or China.

I knew a person who was Samoan but had never known Samoan culture as she was raised by white parents. Certain things about Samoan culture were shocking and abhorrent, such as fa'afafine, men who take a woman's role in the family. So these attitudes might not be truly genetic, but a "culture gene". we are programmed to absorb culture as babies and toddlers and in fact we never stop. It was not until the third grade i realized that "only" was not pronounced "omly"..I used to say "omly" and in fact in my brain it still means the same thing.

but as you already said, these old habits die hard.
Namu Myoho Renge Kyo
Myoho-Nameless
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:00 am
Location: Cascadia. Washington State, USA.

Re: Dharma and long-term economic recession.

Postby justsit » Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:35 pm

Heh heh heh...

Image
User avatar
justsit
 
Posts: 641
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:24 pm
Location: Delaware

Re: Dharma and long-term economic recession.

Postby Myoho-Nameless » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:28 am

justsit wrote:Heh heh heh...

Image

that guy has a trustworthy face....I bet good things happen to him.
Namu Myoho Renge Kyo
Myoho-Nameless
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:00 am
Location: Cascadia. Washington State, USA.

Re: Dharma and long-term economic recession.

Postby PorkChop » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:08 pm

Masaru wrote:From my experiences, Mexican nationals do remember--are aware of the historical fact--that Texas and the rest of the southwestern United States were once part of Mexico. I won't get into the different interpretations of the significance of the Mexican-American war or of Texas' independence, but there is a general feeling amongst Mexican nationals that their presence is justified in the American southwest. I doubt that any part of the southwest would ever secede or attempt to rejoin Mexico because of Mexican influence, but I do see that the roots of Hispanic influence run deep enough in the southwest to have a progressively balkanizing effect as American prosperity declines.


Yeah, but you're missing something...
Tejanos are frequently insulted by Mexican nationals as being "without a homeland" (can't remember the slang term, something like "bucho").
Many of the Tejanos with deep roots in this area are a little sore about this and it reinforces their pride over their ancestor's secession.
Sure, there have been many immigrants to the area in recent years, but the people with deep roots make up the bulk of the Hispanic population.
The Aztlan movement did not do well here.

EDIT:
I know some rather strong opponents to illegal immigration who are Tejano and don't self-identify with Mexican nationals, the idea of a singular "Hispanic influence" may be a myth.
Either way, it's not like Hispanic & (non-Spanish) European cultures didn't mix and intermingle from way back.
Could you imagine Tejano or Norteno music without the accordion adopted from European Polka/Oom-pah music?
User avatar
PorkChop
 
Posts: 661
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:17 pm
Location: Marietta, GA

Re: Dharma and long-term economic recession.

Postby viniketa » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:15 am

PorkChop wrote: the idea of a singular "Hispanic influence" may be a myth...


No maybe, about it. Four hundred years ago, Spain ruled the seas and Spanish was the global lingua franca. There are more ways to be Hispanic than there are to be gringo... :tongue:

:namaste:
If they can sever like and dislike, along with greed, anger, and delusion, regardless of their difference in nature, they will all accomplish the Buddha Path.. ~ Sutra of Complete Enlightenment
User avatar
viniketa
 
Posts: 819
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:39 am
Location: USA

Re: Dharma and long-term economic recession.

Postby Queequeg » Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:14 pm

Everything I learned about the Hispanic past of the Southwest, I learned from Bob Dylan.

http://youtu.be/LWgSkX96Ang
Queequeg
 
Posts: 193
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Dharma and long-term economic recession.

Postby Masaru » Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:47 am

A certain man said to the priest Shungaku, "The Lotus Sutra Sect's character is not good because it's so fearsome." Shungaku replied, "It is by reason of its fearsome character that it is the Lotus Sutra Sect. If its character were not so, it would be a different sect altogether."
-- The Hagakure
User avatar
Masaru
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:10 am

Re: Dharma and long-term economic recession.

Postby PorkChop » Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:33 am

Masaru wrote:http://youtu.be/qAC7jg5l8V4
http://youtu.be/SLv3qQtrQmI

He's funny. :)
This is my favorite Tex-Mex rapper from Houston.
You should check out my boy Namik and his friends.
Work out with him and his cousin sometimes.
User avatar
PorkChop
 
Posts: 661
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:17 pm
Location: Marietta, GA

Re: Dharma and long-term economic recession.

Postby illarraza » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:34 am

Namu Myoho renge kyo is all that's needed in Mappo. Large stones or tablets engraved with the Daimoku in the regional languages will suffice to keep the Dharma alive [if the s--t really hits the fan]. If you are so capable, you might also engrave the first section of the Hoben-pon and the Jiga-ge. Nichiren teaches that merely a tablet [toba] engraved with Daimoku in the forest will save the suffering animals.

Illarraza
illarraza
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:30 am

Re: Dharma and long-term economic recession.

Postby Queequeg » Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:42 pm

illarraza wrote:Nichiren teaches that merely a tablet [toba] engraved with Daimoku in the forest will save the suffering animals.


Source?
Queequeg
 
Posts: 193
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Dharma and long-term economic recession.

Postby Masaru » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:18 am

PorkChop wrote:This is my favorite Tex-Mex rapper from Houston.
You should check out my boy Namik and his friends.


So it looks like you're beginning to see my point:

Image

It's not as improbable as it might seem, especially over time and in the wake of a major economic collapse. It's not really a "race" issue, either, as much as an issue of establishment, anti-establishment, and the change of the existing establishment through decay into another system altogether.

Queequeg wrote:So, the other night as I was watching a pot of water boil, I started giving some thought to an end times story - The Road but with a Buddhist theme. Then it occurred to me - I saw that movie - its the dramatization of Nichiren's biography in Soka Gakkai's Human Revolution movie.

He was living at a time when Japan was ruled by a bunch of armed thugs, life was cheap, and plagues, earthquakes and devastating storms occurred with regularity. And the mongol horde was threatening invasion from the mainland. And they kept trying to kill him - capped with an execution order with a last minute reprieve.


But, in relation to race - like I said - those white supremacists aren't just going to dematerialize. In fact, should such a collapse ever occur, they may begin to assert themselves through elitist policies in the legitimate government. Again.

http://youtu.be/l8RcWkS9LiI?t=10s

Angry people need scapegoats, regardless of the race of anyone involved. Old conflicts are often a convenient excuse to justify the means in undertaking new conflicts where one's own group will win at the expense of those excluded. How the lines are actually drawn is fairly arbitrary, but precedents exist.
A certain man said to the priest Shungaku, "The Lotus Sutra Sect's character is not good because it's so fearsome." Shungaku replied, "It is by reason of its fearsome character that it is the Lotus Sutra Sect. If its character were not so, it would be a different sect altogether."
-- The Hagakure
User avatar
Masaru
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:10 am

Re: Dharma and long-term economic recession.

Postby PorkChop » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:44 am

Nice catch! Namik's lost a lot of weight since then tho.
Hip hop's mostly about putting on a persona, but I could probably see him getting in the face of a skinhead.
For the most part, as long as you're cool with him, he's cool with you.

In the event of a collapse, my wife's Okinawan & my kid's half.
My kid can pass for hispanic for sure and I doubt they'd be head hunting asians in the wake of a collapse...
Can't really see 3/4s of the people I know & hang out with suddenly turning on me just coz I'm white...
I wouldn't think so given the fact that we're already a minority in this town, so it'd be redundant...
Who knows...
Maybe we'll just run away to go live with my in-laws. :)

That video's pretty disgusting.
User avatar
PorkChop
 
Posts: 661
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:17 pm
Location: Marietta, GA

PreviousNext

Return to Nichiren

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

>