For things that happen to us

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waimengwan
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For things that happen to us

Postby waimengwan » Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:02 am

What other factors can there be for things to happen to us that is outside of karma?

Can we experience any actions that we have not created?

Please share with me your thoughts thank you.

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SunRay
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Re: For things that happen to us

Postby SunRay » Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:21 pm

Everything has a cause. The actions maybe due to actions that we have done in this life, but more often they are results of our actions in our innumerable previous lives such as our precious human birth, the choice of parents, etc. Also, that one is practicing the teachings of Lama Tsongkhapa may be taken as a sign that one has managed gather abundant merit in previous lives. Whereas, difficulties in our dharma practice, ilnesses and such are caused by our negative actions during our countless previous lives. The Dharmarakshita's 'Wheel of Sharp Weapons' http://www.whitetaracenter.com/texts/FP ... ec2006.pdf is a very useful read.
OM GATE GATE PARAGATE PARASAMGATE BODHI SVAHA

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Kunga Lhadzom
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Re: For things that happen to us

Postby Kunga Lhadzom » Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:53 pm

Is it really "happening" to "us" ?
Isn't this an illusion ?
If this is illusion,
so is karma... :namaste:
The Universe flowing through my veins...stars falling from my eyes......

jmlee369
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Re: For things that happen to us

Postby jmlee369 » Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:02 am


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SunRay
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Re: For things that happen to us

Postby SunRay » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:49 pm

OM GATE GATE PARAGATE PARASAMGATE BODHI SVAHA

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Kunga Lhadzom
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Re: For things that happen to us

Postby Kunga Lhadzom » Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:14 am

Thank you SunRay,
Sometimes I forget and need reminding
No wonder I feel lost...
Thank you for the clear explaination
Sometimes I read too much,
And comprehend little.

:namaste:
The Universe flowing through my veins...stars falling from my eyes......

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catmoon
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Re: For things that happen to us

Postby catmoon » Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:02 am

Nice job, SunRay. You wrapped up the Gelug position pretty neatly. Other sects vary somewhat in interpretation, but this is the Gelug section so I won't go there. Besides, I happen to believe HHDL got it right. :thumbsup:
Sergeant Schultz knew everything there was to know.

Andrew108
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Re: For things that happen to us

Postby Andrew108 » Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:56 am

To call reality an illusion does not imply nothingness.
The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.

muni
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Re: For things that happen to us

Postby muni » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:49 pm

What we experience in this world doesn't really exist in a solid or substantial sense. It merely exists in a dreamlike way. But to see everything as solid we cling too.

I think due to our habitual dual perception we turn in extremes of nothingnesses and other real-esses. Percieving/experiencing without clinging...When we hold on, "it" "happens" to "us".

When we hold on, we freeze that what happens. An example is suffering of strong pain. Practice in order to "see" the dependence-emptiness helps. (moon in our water-mind). May we can do so.

"Mister/Miss Not Nothingness" unceasingly performs activities to benefit all sentient beings without any attachment.

Found this: http://www.katinkahesselink.net/tibet/dalai2.html :anjali:

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Tom
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Re: For things that happen to us

Postby Tom » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:23 am


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waimengwan
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Re: For things that happen to us

Postby waimengwan » Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:43 pm


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Tom
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Re: For things that happen to us

Postby Tom » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:12 pm


muni
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Re: For things that happen to us

Postby muni » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:32 am

By Dalai Lama.

"...In the Buddhist teachings, when we search for the causes of suffering, we find what is called 'the truth of the origin of suffering', namely that negative actions -- karma -- and the negative emotions that induce such actions are the causes of suffering.

There are certain Buddhist texts that speak of space particles, existing before the evolution of this present universe. According to these texts, the space particles serve as the material and substantial cause for matter, such as this plant.
Now if the essential and substantial cause for matter is traced to these space particles, which are all the same, how do we account for the diversity that we see in the material world? It is here that the question of conditions and circumstances comes into play.
When these substantial causes come in contact with different circumstances and conditions, they give rise to different effects, that is, different kinds of matter. So we find that the cause alone is not sufficient for bringing about a result.

What is required is an aggregation of many different conditions and circumstances.
Although you can find certain differences among the Buddhist philosophical schools about how the universe came into being, the basic common question addressed is how the two fundamental principles--external matter and internal mind or consciousness--although distinct, affect one another.

External causes and conditions are responsible for certain of our experiences of happiness and suffering. Yet we find that it is principally our own feelings, our thoughts and our emotions, that really determine whether we are going to suffer or be happy".

http://www.barbarapijan.com/bpa/Practic ... rma_timing
:reading:

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Tom
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Re: For things that happen to us

Postby Tom » Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:31 pm

Muni maybe it is just me but the link seems dead.

Here is more from H.H. Dalai Lama … very cool because he starts with "My own view …"

"My own view is that the entire process of the unfolding of a universe system is a matter of the natural law of causality. I envision karma coming into the picture at two points. When the universe has evolved to a stage where it can support the life of sentient beings, its fate becomes entangled with the karma of the beings who will inhabit it. More difficult perhaps is the first intervention of karma, which is effectively the maturation of the karmic potential of the sentient beings who will occupy that universe, which sets in motion its coming into being."

I think that the Dalai Lama's point, as per Muni's quote, is that things come about through many causes and conditions, of which karma is one. Of course where a sentient being's mind is involved karma is involved. More specifically wherever there is a mind, there are two important mental factors directly related with karma. The first is intention (ཚོར་བ|वेदनम्) which has the function of the mind engaging with objects, and which Vasubandhu equates with karma (along with the motivated actions of speech and body). Then there is feeling (སེམས་པ་ | चेतन) which is a pleasurable, painful, or neutral experience and which Asanga clearly says is the result of the maturation of karma.

However, It seems that according to the position above some other phenomena are not at least the direct result of karma, and one of the implications of this position is that it forces a different philosophical understanding of the Madhyamaka view than simply equating being merely labelled by mind with everything comes from karma. How such a view is taken into tantric practice, most especially the generation stage practice, is also an interesting topic.


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Re: For things that happen to us

Postby celinechan » Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:10 pm


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Steveyboy
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Re: For things that happen to us

Postby Steveyboy » Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:19 am


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Re: For things that happen to us

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waimengwan
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Re: For things that happen to us

Postby waimengwan » Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:31 am

Let say I am not very mindful as per the example of the forest fire.

1) Then because of my carelessness i leave the fire burning, the forest burns down. The condition is a dry forest and burning fire. Karma only comes about after I burn the forest down harming the environment + harming animals there.

2) I have the karma to harm all these animals in the forest, or the animals in the forest have the karma to be harmed, the condition is my lack of mindfullness, burning fire and dry forest. karma is created after the fire. So there is karma in operation before and after.

Aren't both of these scenarios also valid?

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Steveyboy
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Re: For things that happen to us

Postby Steveyboy » Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:03 pm



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