Southern Lam Rim

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Southern Lam Rim

Postby ngodrup » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:47 pm

Connected with the biography of Pabonkhapa Rinpoche--
Southern tradition of Lam Rim is mentioned. I gather that
there's some controversy around it.

What exactly is it? How does it differ from "mainstream" Lam Rim?
I have the impression that it has something more to do with
oral than textual tradition. Who knows?
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Re: Southern Lam Rim

Postby Caz » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:09 pm

ngodrup wrote:Connected with the biography of Pabonkhapa Rinpoche--
Southern tradition of Lam Rim is mentioned. I gather that
there's some controversy around it.

What exactly is it? How does it differ from "mainstream" Lam Rim?
I have the impression that it has something more to do with
oral than textual tradition. Who knows?


I dont think there is any real difference TBH in essence ive noticed some people can be very tetchy regarding stuff like this of course it is always good to varify where tradition has its roots and certainly Je Pabongkha was able to demonstrate the authenticity to His Holiness the 13th by pointing out the location of the books in his library and the very paragraphs that where in mention. Seeing as pretty much every single Gelugpa practitoner today has his or her roots through Je Pabongkha including the vast practises of Lamrim he taught id safely say that there is nothing off with the Lamrim he taught people.
Beyond this im not sure perhapes I shall ask some friends whom hve more scholarly knowledge of this. :namaste:
Abandoning Dharma is, in the final analysis, disparaging the Hinayana because of the Mahayana; favoring the Hinayana on account of the Mahayana; playing off sutra against tantra; playing off the four classes of the tantras against each other; favoring one of the Tibetan schools—the Sakya, Gelug, Kagyu, or Nyingma—and disparaging the rest; and so on. In other words, we abandon Dharma any time we favor our own tenets and disparage the rest.

Liberation in the Palm of your hand~Kyabje Pabongkha Rinpoche.
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Re: Southern Lam Rim

Postby ngodrup » Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:43 am

Yes. I understand it is widely held today.
My curiosity is what is distinctive.
I think it may have something to do with
oral embellishments-- nice ways to enrich
one's practice, but not textual necessities.
I got that sense from a Geshe I know who
looks askance at things like incensing water
bowls before pouring water into them.
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Re: Southern Lam Rim

Postby ngodrup » Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:17 am

I have no interest in debate about Pabongkhapa Rinpoche himself.
Simply reading the bio raised question in my mind about the tradition
he represented. I know the controversy about the teaching was abated.
Apart from PR himself, what was it about his teaching-- if anything--
other than being unfamiliar. Was it merely the transmission line
that was distinct, or were some aspects of the teaching atypical?
That's my question.
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Re: Southern Lam Rim

Postby Tilopa » Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:13 am

ngodrup wrote:I have no interest in debate about Pabongkhapa Rinpoche himself.
Simply reading the bio raised question in my mind about the tradition
he represented. I know the controversy about the teaching was abated.
Apart from PR himself, what was it about his teaching-- if anything--
other than being unfamiliar. Was it merely the transmission line
that was distinct, or were some aspects of the teaching atypical?
That's my question.

If you are referring to Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand it is one in which PR weaves together instructions from various lamrim texts and lineages. There's nothing necessarily unusual about that although it does reflect the vast learning and skill he possessed as a teacher. Otherwise I don't think any aspects of the teaching were atypical or controversial although I am by no means an expert.
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Re: Southern Lam Rim

Postby mudra » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:35 am

ngodrup wrote:Connected with the biography of Pabonkhapa Rinpoche--
Southern tradition of Lam Rim is mentioned. I gather that
there's some controversy around it.

What exactly is it? How does it differ from "mainstream" Lam Rim?
I have the impression that it has something more to do with
oral than textual tradition. Who knows?


Basically the Southern Lineage Lam Rim is a sutric practice, the visualisations also are adapted to Sutra without the prelimiaries associated with tantra. There are in fact two sublineages of the Southern Lineage, one with annotations from the Great Fifth Dalai Lama, and one the lineage of which was almost broken but has recently been transmitted according at the Dagpo Shedrup Ling monastery. I don't have my notes with me right now from that session but I can tell you more later.

M
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Re: Southern Lam Rim

Postby Mr. G » Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:42 pm

OP has received the answer to this question. Locked.
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
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