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Paying attention - Dhamma Wheel

Paying attention

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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tiltbillings
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Paying attention

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:53 am



A screen grab from the Buddhist Fellowship FB page:
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Khalil Bodhi
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Re: Paying attention

Postby Khalil Bodhi » Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:06 am

:anjali:
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
-Dhp. 183

Uposatha Observance Club:
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Phena
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Re: Paying attention

Postby Phena » Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:52 am

Such sound practical advice. Thanks for posting Tilt.

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anthbrown84
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Re: Paying attention

Postby anthbrown84 » Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:03 am

The simplicity of this statement is what touches me the most

Sometimes while observing you can almost feel like ''well, what now, whens it going to stop feeling this way''.... but keeping in mind that this mere observance IS infact all we need to do, is really soothing
"Your job in practise is to know the difference between the heart and the activity of the heart, that is it, it is that simple" Ajahn Tate

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Sea Turtle
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Re: Paying attention

Postby Sea Turtle » Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:10 pm

Wonderful! Thanks so much for posting this.

:anjali:

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Nicolas
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Re: Paying attention

Postby Nicolas » Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:30 pm

:heart: Ven. Jayasāro

Here is the original:

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ihrjordan
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Re: Paying attention

Postby ihrjordan » Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:01 pm

I needed to read this; thank you.

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mikenz66
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Re: Paying attention

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:38 pm

A wonderful piece which demonstrates the right effort that can often arise from "just observing".

:anjali:
Mike

thepea
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Re: Paying attention

Postby thepea » Sat Feb 27, 2016 1:41 am

Tough to implement in lay-life. As a building renovator, I am often put in positions of responsibility where we are working in reverse order. Trying to temporarily support a roof or wall while changes are made to existing structure. worry is part of everyday on the job, there are often young inexperienced people to look out for, and train. The other day a foundation bank that was seemingly sound collapsed and a 5000 lb section of concrete wall came down and almost flattened two of us.

I've kind of developed the habit of anticipating potential problems based on past experience and previous outcomes. You do your best when altering a roof to protect the interior of the structure from water damage, you have to run through the gambit of worries from your well of past experience to come up with the best protection. You do your due diligence and when the day is done and your home and the wind starts whipping up and the sky turns black and opens up and it starts pouring, it is difficult not to be concerned/worried in these situations and want to hop in your truck and go have a peek to see if everything is ok.

Is this rational worry or irrational worry or simply concern for your customers and fellow workers well being? Is this really an unwelcome visitor of the mind, or is it what makes someone caring and responsible?

We can't all shave our heads and quit our jobs, who would feed and care for my children?

I'm literally being paid to attend to worry, to follow these instructions would be a breach of my civil duties.

dagon
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Re: Paying attention

Postby dagon » Sat Feb 27, 2016 2:09 am

I think you may have misunderstood.

What the Ajahn was talking about was a worried mind and in particular about how worry can be generalised and focused in the future.

Being diligent about what you are doing in the present is being in the present moment. Worrying about what may happen in the future is not mindfulness. It is this that distracts and can lead to bad decisions in the present which will have bad outcomes in the future. Seeing worry for what it is helps to clear the mind leaving space for the task at hand.

metta
dagon

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mikenz66
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Re: Paying attention

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Feb 27, 2016 2:10 am

I think that's simply being sensibly careful, and not what the post is talking about.

:anjali:
Mike

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tiltbillings
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Re: Paying attention

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Feb 27, 2016 3:49 am


Phena
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Re: Paying attention

Postby Phena » Sat Feb 27, 2016 4:56 am

Worry is counterproductive and only serves to cloud clear thinking. It is bound up with grasping and aversion. The unworried mind will do a far better job at being focused, attentive and truly caring in all situations.

JohnK
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Re: Paying attention

Postby JohnK » Sat Feb 27, 2016 5:53 am

Makes sense to me that thepea is being "sensibly careful," responsibly concerned, perhaps "worrying" about the things that need to be "worried" about -- but I think for simplicity, I wouldn't use the word worry there.
So how to tell the difference between the above and "worry" -- I think perhaps worry "grips" or "contracts" -- there is a visceral distinction. Worry seems to have an element of "fear" -- reflecting an attachment to something, for example, to a certain sense of self -- "I should be able to keep bad things (of a certain type) from happening;" "I want to be perceived as someone who..."
Something like that anyway...
"Why is it, Master Kaccana, that ascetics fight with ascetics?"
"It is, brahmin, because of attachment to views, adherence to views, fixation on views, addiction to views, obsession with views, holding firmly to views that ascetics fight with ascetics" (AN 2: iv, 6, abridged).
Kindly eyes, not verbal daggers.

thepea
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Re: Paying attention

Postby thepea » Sat Feb 27, 2016 12:17 pm

The ajahn suggests worry is an unwelcome visitor to the mind. This to me suggests a level of aversion to worry. All are my friends, all are equally welcome in a balanced equanimous mind. How are we to liberate all beings from suffering if some are considered "unwelcome visitors" to the mind?

JohnK
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Re: Paying attention

Postby JohnK » Sat Feb 27, 2016 3:37 pm

Language is tricky! Although the ajahn uses the phrase "unwelcome visitor," right before that he says don't push it away, don't welcome -- just see that it arises and passes. That has been one way that "welcome all the guests" has been described.
Then, "worry" IS one of the hindrances (so at a certain level it is "unwelcome), but one of the ways to deal with the hindrances is to not push them away, and welcome them to the extent of seeing them for what they are -- impersonal happenings that arise and pass. Welcoming a visitor is still recognizing them AS a visitor, not self, not about clinging; less suffering -- maybe more responsible concern and less painful worry.
Just typing what I'm thinking this morning. :coffee:
"Why is it, Master Kaccana, that ascetics fight with ascetics?"
"It is, brahmin, because of attachment to views, adherence to views, fixation on views, addiction to views, obsession with views, holding firmly to views that ascetics fight with ascetics" (AN 2: iv, 6, abridged).
Kindly eyes, not verbal daggers.

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Thisperson
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Re: Paying attention

Postby Thisperson » Sat Feb 27, 2016 3:44 pm


thepea
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Re: Paying attention

Postby thepea » Sat Feb 27, 2016 6:22 pm

It's the "recognise "worry" as "worry" an unwelcome visitor" part that changes the meditative advice from my perspective. That would be plain and simply not seeing things as they are, but seeing things with aversion. How to come out of worry if one observes worry with the hopes that it leaves? The paper seems like solid advice if this sentence were removed, with it included it changes the message for me, to something I can't get fully on board with.

I mean we can speculate on what he may have or may not have meant in this message, but the fact remains this portion was included. :thinking:

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Goofaholix
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Re: Paying attention

Postby Goofaholix » Sat Feb 27, 2016 6:38 pm


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katavedi
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Re: Paying attention

Postby katavedi » Sat Feb 27, 2016 6:49 pm

“But, Gotamī, when you know of certain things: ‘These things lead to dispassion, not to passion; to detachment, not to attachment; to diminution, not to accumulation; to having few wishes, not to having many wishes; to contentment, not to discontent; to seclusion, not to socializing; to the arousing of energy, not to indolence; to simple living, not to luxurious living’ – of such things you can be certain: ‘This is the Dhamma; this is the Discipline; this is the Master’s Teaching.’”


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