Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

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Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Postby Kaung » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:26 pm

That's a itching question from the first time I've seen that in the letters between lama zopa and his students like this http://www.lamayeshe.com/?sect=article&id=343 Probably Mo :shrug: ?If someone in this forum can do it then I would appreciate if you'd do it for me :smile: It also turns out it can determine the exact amount of ngondro practices to be done I have no plans of slacking tho :tongue:
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Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Postby DiamondSutra » Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:45 pm

Where do you live?
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Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Postby Kaung » Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:59 am

Burma
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Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Postby ngodrup » Thu May 01, 2014 6:03 am

The correct amount of Ngondro to do is 100,000 per practice,
with the exception of Guru Yoga which is more. No need for me
to cast a Mo here, because the scriptural authority is solid.

Now, can a particular Lama do this, yes. Some are extraordinarily
gifted and can ascertain the Lamas and Yidams of your past lives--
that if your predecessor accomplished to any extent, would make
them especially significantly easier to accomplish in this time. I have
witnessed such divination.

Since you are referring to Lama Zopa, consider that his predecessor
was a cave-dwelling yogi who spent most of his life in retreat and
completed the practice of Northern Treasure practices as well as others.
There is a biography of the Lawudo Lama, you can read.
So this accomplishment is no surprise. He is by no means the only one.

His style though, is to prescribe practices that would take most people
several lifetimes. My teacher used to say: "If you don't get a mo, you
are free; if you get one, then you know what you have to do." Therefore,
if you do get a mo, get one from a Lama you know and trust, And be
very specific in your question, lest you find yourself living in a cave for
50 years. :) Maybe as a yes/no question like, "Should I adopt the practice
of Shri Heruka, or is Vajrasattva more suitable." Be prepared that it might
come out some other form like Vajrakilaya, Hayagyiva, Yamantaka or Tara
for that matter. But usually the question focuses the answer.
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Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Postby JKhedrup » Thu May 01, 2014 12:36 pm

Usually one feels a stronger connection to one particular deity, and this becomes one's yidam. Zopa Rinpoche will do a mo on request, as will some other lamas, but most do not

In terms of the gelug tradition, usually the first Anuttarayoga initiation people take is Yamantaka, as in Lama Tzongkhapa's presentation it is the preliminary as its special feature is to pacify obstacles.

I pray that a suitable Geshe visits your country or that you can travel to receive the empowerments.
In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,
I must obtain control over my own mind.
Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,
and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.
-Atisha Dipamkara
brtsal ba'i bkhra drin
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Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Postby ReasonAndRhyme » Thu May 01, 2014 3:38 pm

ngodrup wrote:The correct amount of Ngondro to do is 100,000 per practice,
with the exception of Guru Yoga which is more. No need for me
to cast a Mo here, because the scriptural authority is solid.


:smile:

I'm guessing the OP meant how many times to do the Ngondro.
"Forget about being clever, and simply remain." Guru Rinpoche, Treasures from Juniper Ridge
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Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Postby ngodrup » Thu May 01, 2014 5:52 pm

How many? At least once.
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Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Postby ngodrup » Thu May 01, 2014 6:00 pm

JKhedrup wrote:
In terms of the gelug tradition, usually the first Anuttarayoga initiation people take is Yamantaka, as in Lama Tzongkhapa's presentation it is the preliminary as its special feature is to pacify obstacles.



This is interesting because the same general principle is seen in the Kagyu and Nyingma.
Kagyupas recommend Mahakala to beginners (as a yidam) to remove obstacles.
Nyingmapas recommend the yidam Vajrakilaya to beginners to remove obstacles.
In both cases, one does not necessarily have to have completed ngondro to start
accumulating the recommended deity-- just promise to complete ngondro during this lifetime.
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Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Postby conebeckham » Thu May 01, 2014 6:30 pm

ngodrup wrote:
JKhedrup wrote:
In terms of the gelug tradition, usually the first Anuttarayoga initiation people take is Yamantaka, as in Lama Tzongkhapa's presentation it is the preliminary as its special feature is to pacify obstacles.



This is interesting because the same general principle is seen in the Kagyu and Nyingma.
Kagyupas recommend Mahakala to beginners (as a yidam) to remove obstacles.
Nyingmapas recommend the yidam Vajrakilaya to beginners to remove obstacles.
In both cases, one does not necessarily have to have completed ngondro to start
accumulating the recommended deity-- just promise to complete ngondro during this lifetime.


Woah, pardner, hold on to that horse....

I know of no Kagyu lama who gives Mahakala as yidam practice to beginners.

As a protector, sure, there are Jenangs for various Mahakala forms--Bernakchen and Gonpo Chagdrupa especially....but these aren't "Yidam" practices. Mahakala, at this level, is a protector practice. One does not usually "self-generate" as Mahakala. Usually, there's SolKha--offerings and praises, torma offerings, etc. but not full Sadhana.

Most Kagyu lamas I know of will give Chenrezig, or Tara, or both, and maybe some other practices.
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Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Postby ngodrup » Thu May 01, 2014 7:35 pm

ok, perhaps I misunderstand.

Cone, are you are saying then that the Mahakala jenangs are given
prior to full wang? And six arm Mahakala, when given, is not a
full sadhana but a solka? A Lama we both know, explicitly said
'Mahakala is recommended for beginners to remove obstacles.'
The text I'm looking at is clearly not a solka.
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Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Postby conebeckham » Thu May 01, 2014 8:03 pm

Ngodrup, I assume you're talking about Six Arm Mahakala, and not the practice of Bernakchen, based on your comments, right?

Chagdrupa is indeed given to beginners, as a protector. But it's a Dun Kye--a "Front Generation" with mantra, and offerings, Kangwa, torma offering, requesting activity, etc. I wouldn't call that a "yidam practice." Certainly, for those practicing under the "Kalu Rinpoche" DagShang scheme, daily Chagdrupa for relative beginners is common. But Chenrezig and Tara would be appropriate yidams.

If we're talking about Bernakchen, well, that's a bit different. But still I wouldn't say it's "yidam" practice.
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Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Postby Karma Jinpa » Thu May 01, 2014 10:27 pm

Amitayus is traditionally accumulated before the start of ngondro in the Drikung Kagyu tradition, though I'm not sure if one needs the empowerment or if it's just acceptable to just do front generation and the mantra.

Gonpo MaNing --- the eunuch form of Mahakala --- is given to beginners in the Palyul Nyingma lineage, though only as an enlightened protector (i.e. front visualization only, and no dissolution so that he protects you constantly).

Achi Chökyi Drölma, being a yidam and enlightened protector all in one, holds a pretty unique place in the Drikung lineage. I know of some (including beginners) receiving the transmission being allowed to practice her sadhana without empowerment. Her empowerment does exist and is given, however, as Kyabjé Garchen Rinpoche gave it last year at Gar Drölma amongst the other ones.

Kaung, do you feel a connection to any particular deities? How about to the things certain deities preside over or help us perfect? (compassion, wisdom, activity, power, long-life, wealth, etc.)

Any practices you do or are drawn to which feature a particular yidam? As long as the connection isn't superficial, you might already have an inkling about who to practice without having to wait for a Mo divination. It's also key to remember that all deities are of the same essence, having emanated from the Dharmakaya, the all-pervasive source of Buddha mind, so practicing one accomplishes them all!
"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, it happens that a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་རཱ་ག་ཨ་སྱ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།
ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།


:namaste:
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Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Postby JKhedrup » Fri May 02, 2014 3:09 am

Kaung another important thing to do is make prayers and requests to meet a qualified teacher who can guide you and initiate you into the various practices.

Burma is opening up more and more
It would be great to see a lama visit the country.
In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,
I must obtain control over my own mind.
Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,
and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.
-Atisha Dipamkara
brtsal ba'i bkhra drin
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Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Postby Kaung » Fri May 02, 2014 5:54 am

Karma Jinpa wrote:Amitayus is traditionally accumulated before the start of ngondro in the Drikung Kagyu tradition, though I'm not sure if one needs the empowerment or if it's just acceptable to just do front generation and the mantra.

Gonpo MaNing --- the eunuch form of Mahakala --- is given to beginners in the Palyul Nyingma lineage, though only as an enlightened protector (i.e. front visualization only, and no dissolution so that he protects you constantly).

Achi Chökyi Drölma, being a yidam and enlightened protector all in one, holds a pretty unique place in the Drikung lineage. I know of some (including beginners) receiving the transmission being allowed to practice her sadhana without empowerment. Her empowerment does exist and is given, however, as Kyabjé Garchen Rinpoche gave it last year at Gar Drölma amongst the other ones.

Kaung, do you feel a connection to any particular deities? How about to the things certain deities preside over or help us perfect? (compassion, wisdom, activity, power, long-life, wealth, etc.)

Any practices you do or are drawn to which feature a particular yidam? As long as the connection isn't superficial, you might already have an inkling about who to practice without having to wait for a Mo divination. It's also key to remember that all deities are of the same essence, having emanated from the Dharmakaya, the all-pervasive source of Buddha mind, so practicing one accomplishes them all!

Actually I feel really drawn to Yamantaka Heruka(esp 5 deity) and cittamani tara in context of HYT deities Amitayus green tara and dzambhala are my favourites in lower tantras
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Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Postby Kaung » Fri May 02, 2014 7:31 am

JKhedrup wrote:Kaung another important thing to do is make prayers and requests to meet a qualified teacher who can guide you and initiate you into the various practices.

Burma is opening up more and more
It would be great to see a lama visit the country.

I will!It's my dream that even if a single lama visits here during my lifetime and builds a center(the latter is pretty impossible with this" racist buddhism" and many anti-mahayanist monks conditions will be worse with vajrayana) Anyways I have plans of moving to Singapore in two years So I've gotta work hard :jumping: Please pray for success in my work within two years because it's very crucial in decision of moving or not moving to Singapore For now I wish to take Dzambhala as my main practice
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Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Postby JKhedrup » Fri May 02, 2014 11:20 am

I will Kaung.

May all obstacles to receiving the teachings you wish be solved very soon. I am sure many others hete are also sending their best wishes.
In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,
I must obtain control over my own mind.
Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,
and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.
-Atisha Dipamkara
brtsal ba'i bkhra drin
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Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Postby lelopa » Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:44 am

conebeckham wrote:..........................

I know of no Kagyu lama who gives Mahakala as yidam practice to beginners.

.....................


Lama Tenga Rinpoche did so in the beginning of the 80's....
I do not have any solutions - but i admire the problems!
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Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Postby conebeckham » Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:46 pm

lelopa wrote:
conebeckham wrote:..........................

I know of no Kagyu lama who gives Mahakala as yidam practice to beginners.

.....................


Lama Tenga Rinpoche did so in the beginning of the 80's....


The important words are "yidam practice."

I'm interested, can you tell me more? Chagdrupa? Bernakchen? Are you sure it wasn't just initial empowerments for protector practice--solkhas, forma offerings, etc.?
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Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Postby Kilaya. » Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:49 am

I'm not sure, but I think the long Bernakchen sadhana does involve transformation into Mahakala, doesn't it?
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Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Postby lelopa » Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:59 am

conebeckham wrote:
lelopa wrote:
conebeckham wrote:..........................

I know of no Kagyu lama who gives Mahakala as yidam practice to beginners.

.....................


Lama Tenga Rinpoche did so in the beginning of the 80's....


The important words are "yidam practice."
ok, the important words are "lelopa answered here" a man who knows what that is :mrgreen:

I'm interested, can you tell me more?
ok- but i do not want to get too much into details
Chagdrupa? Bernakchen?
Bernagchen
Are you sure it wasn't just initial empowerments for protector practice--solkhas, forma offerings, etc.?
it was a very short wang but the visualisations was exactly like a yidam-wang -
the practice-explanation was self-visualisation & it includes torma-offering, etc. at the end of the main-practice and a samaya for daily recitation!
So i can't see the difference between this and some yidam-practices....
I do not have any solutions - but i admire the problems!
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