gaden nyen gyu?

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gaden nyen gyu?

Postby lama tsewang » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:56 pm

i have heard of something called an ear whispered gaden tradition . is this something within the gelugpa tradition , thats a little bit separate?
ie. maybe like some of the methods that rechungpa learned.

i have heard here and there that part of it is the lama chopa and the text on gelug-kagyu mahamudra.
and maybe chod?

These thoughts come up because just a few days ago , i was notified that dechen ling press has a new commentary out on lama chopa , and appended to the commenttary in the back of the book, they added the famous text on gelug -kagyu mahamudra.
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Re: gaden nyen gyu?

Postby Caz » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:17 pm

lama tsewang wrote:i have heard of something called an ear whispered gaden tradition . is this something within the gelugpa tradition , thats a little bit separate?
ie. maybe like some of the methods that rechungpa learned.

i have heard here and there that part of it is the lama chopa and the text on gelug-kagyu mahamudra.
and maybe chod?

These thoughts come up because just a few days ago , i was notified that dechen ling press has a new commentary out on lama chopa , and appended to the commenttary in the back of the book, they added the famous text on gelug -kagyu mahamudra.
tsewang


It is a special part of the Gelug lineage, I'm not sure how openly it is given or discussed these days though.
Abandoning Dharma is, in the final analysis, disparaging the Hinayana because of the Mahayana; favoring the Hinayana on account of the Mahayana; playing off sutra against tantra; playing off the four classes of the tantras against each other; favoring one of the Tibetan schools—the Sakya, Gelug, Kagyu, or Nyingma—and disparaging the rest; and so on. In other words, we abandon Dharma any time we favor our own tenets and disparage the rest.

Liberation in the Palm of your hand~Kyabje Pabongkha Rinpoche.
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Re: gaden nyen gyu?

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:25 pm

Oh, nothing much.
What's new with you?
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Re: gaden nyen gyu?

Postby Malcolm » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:04 pm

lama tsewang wrote:i have heard of something called an ear whispered gaden tradition . is this something within the gelugpa tradition , thats a little bit separate?
ie. maybe like some of the methods that rechungpa learned.

i have heard here and there that part of it is the lama chopa and the text on gelug-kagyu mahamudra.
and maybe chod?

These thoughts come up because just a few days ago , i was notified that dechen ling press has a new commentary out on lama chopa , and appended to the commenttary in the back of the book, they added the famous text on gelug -kagyu mahamudra.
tsewang


It's based on a mystical book called the dge ldan sgyu phrul legs bam, the miraculous book of Ganden. According to legend, it is a book passed down to dben sa pa aka rgyal ba blo bzang don grub. There is but a single copy, and it is claimed that whenever the owner of this book needs to know something related to sutra and tantra, the answer miraculously appears in it. Indeed, Ganden Chod, Mahāmudra and the bLa ma mchod pa are supposed to be sourced in this book. Interestingly, Samten Karmey discovered a manuscript in Bhutan which is definitely from the dben sa pa lineage that bore the name blo bzang bka' 'bum. Thus the legend was grounded in fact. These days, the main promulgators of the myth of the dge ldan sgyu phrul legs bam are the Shugden folks, since they believe that this miraculous book was passed to Pabhonkga, and he to Trijiang Rinpoche. Of course, HHDL quipped once that the real dye ldan sgyu phrul legs bam was the 18 volumes of Lama Tsongkhapa's collected works. According to Karmay, the dge ldan bka' rgyud both represents the views of Lama Tsongkhapa when he was younger and also "leans" Nyingma. It has always been a little controversial in Gelugpa.
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Re: gaden nyen gyu?

Postby Tsongkhapafan » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:19 pm

You'll be glad to know that the Ganden Oral Lineage is alive and well and living in this world :) They are mainly special practices of Guru Yoga and Mahamudra views and methods.
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Re: gaden nyen gyu?

Postby Tom » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:29 pm

And, also glad to know that many of the masters teaching this set of instructions have complete devotion towards H.H. the Dalai Lama.
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Re: gaden nyen gyu?

Postby jiashengrox » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:28 pm

Malcolm wrote: Of course, HHDL quipped once that the real dye ldan sgyu phrul legs bam was the 18 volumes of Lama Tsongkhapa's collected works.


I would like to add the exact source of this statement: the Union of Bliss and Emptiness, HHDL's commentary on Lama Chopa, page 69, Visualisation of the Merit Field, first paragraph. HHDL further mentions the importance of not neglecting the Guhyasamaja practice, which is the main works of Je Rinpoche on tantra, and "it is wrong for someone who claims himself to be a Gelugpa is content only with the recitations of Lama Chopa and Vajrayogini, and neglects practices likr Guhyasamaja and so forth ..." (Page 70, The Union of Bliss and Emptiness)

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Homage to the Mother of Buddhas as well as of the groups of Hearers and Bodhisattvas
which through knowledge of all leads Hearers seeking pacification to thorough peace
And which through knowledge of paths causes those helping transmigrators to achieve the welfare of the world,
And through possession of which the Subduers set forth these varieties endowed with all aspects.

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Re: gaden nyen gyu?

Postby Malcolm » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:07 pm

Tsongkhapafan wrote:You'll be glad to know that the Ganden Oral Lineage is alive and well and living in this world :) They are mainly special practices of Guru Yoga and Mahamudra views and methods.



Yes, this is indeed a good thing.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: gaden nyen gyu?

Postby lama tsewang » Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:28 am

so does this gaden nyen gyud system represent a full complete path system, or is it just some practices that have come through visionary transmission..?

Is there more to it then chod , the sutra mahamudra, from panchen lama and the lama chopa?
i have been told that the lama chopa can be used as a means to bring all the teachings together.

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Re: gaden nyen gyu?

Postby jiashengrox » Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:13 am

Alexander Berzin has a short writeup on the explanation of lama chopa, especially on combining the three main deities of Tsongkhapa into this practice:

http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... ystem.html

I heard that the ganden emanation scriptures (according to Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand) contains preliminary practices such as Jorcho and lam rim instructions (i am not sure, i need to refer back to the text again to verify!), so it does contains in the full path system. There is also the Six Yogas of Naropa being commentated on by Je rinpoche (A Source of Three Inspirations, if i didn't remember wrongly) But if you ask my personal opinion, there is nothing more important than the major indian treatises the Je Rinpoche has recommended, which is (in terms of shastras):

Ornament of Clear Realisation (Abhisamayalankara) by Maitreya, because it contains the paths and grounds of Mahayana;
Entrance to the Middle Way (Madhyamakavatara) by Chandrakirti, because it has a very detailed explanation on Madhyamika, especially (according to Je Rinpoche, the Prasangika's position);
Pramanavartika by Dharmkirti as the foundations for logic and reasoning to study the above text;
Abhidharamakosa by Vasubhandu, the theory of epistemology, and
Commentary on The Vinaya Sutras by Gunaprabha and Shakyaprabha, the moral codes for monastics

Je Rinpoche wrote extensively commenting on these treatisees, and many explanations of the lam rim chen mo has been supported by these texts. This shows the importance of understanding and studying these major indian treatises. On the other hand, for tantra,

Guhyasamaja as the main path as it contains the paths and grounds of Vajrayana, as well as an elaborate treatment on the illusory body;
Chakrasamvra as the detailed explanation for clear light and completion stage practices;
Yamantaka because of its five unique features, and the clearing away of obstacles.

As HHDL has pointed out, there is a reason why Je Rinpoche wrote 5 volumes on Guhyasamaja and less than three pages on Vajrayogini (It's from The Union of Bliss and Emptiness, I need to go find the exact reference) which points the significance or importance Je Rinpoche places on Guhyasamaja. Thus, I would think that the emanation scriptures are more of a skillful means for people who require unique practices (as recommended by one's own Ge-gen), but as for a mainstream Gelugpa, these should be what one should focus on.
Homage to the Mother of Buddhas as well as of the groups of Hearers and Bodhisattvas
which through knowledge of all leads Hearers seeking pacification to thorough peace
And which through knowledge of paths causes those helping transmigrators to achieve the welfare of the world,
And through possession of which the Subduers set forth these varieties endowed with all aspects.

- Ornament of Clear Realisation
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Re: gaden nyen gyu?

Postby JKhedrup » Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:02 am

An understanding of Guyasamaja is essential for a complete practice of Tantra in the Gelug tradition. This is because many if not most of LTK's tantric expositions were composed on the according to the presentation of the Guyasamaja system. So especially from a scholastic point of view, rich practice of tantra in Gelugpa would require at least a cursory familiarity with Guyasamaja in my opinion. More so if one wants to be able to delve deeply into Lama Tsongkahpa's tantric commentaries (most of which are unfortunately not available in English).

That being said, the Ganden Nyen Gyud lineage carries special blessing and is widely given and practice - often with HHDL's blessing. Choden Rinpoche has given it at Sera Jey, and it was also given at Gyuto Tantric University recently (though I cannot remember the name of the lama who gave it). I would say that the Ganden Nyen Gyud is a complimentary practice to the main LTK's emphasis on Gsang Bde 'Jigs Gsum (Guyasamaja, Chakrasamvara and Yamantaka).

I would argue that Lama Chopa is still the most universal and widely recited Gelugpa liturgy. When Tsoks is offered, in my experience 90% of the time it is offered in the context of the Lama Chopa ritual.
In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,
I must obtain control over my own mind.
Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,
and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.
-Atisha Dipamkara
brtsal ba'i bkhra drin
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Re: gaden nyen gyu?

Postby ngodrup » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:29 pm

In "Enlightened Beings," author Dr. Jan Willis presents biographies of
several early lineage holders of the Ganden oral tradition.
An interesting aspect is the variety of practices they engaged.
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Re: gaden nyen gyu?

Postby Tsongkhapafan » Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:01 pm

JKhedrup wrote:I would argue that Lama Chopa is still the most universal and widely recited Gelugpa liturgy


Not Ganden Lhagyema?
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Re: gaden nyen gyu?

Postby JKhedrup » Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:40 am

In the circles I travel in most of the people have reveived commentary on Lama Chopa so have it as a daily recitation commitment. Certainly Ganden Lhagyama is often recited, often as a preliminary to other prayers because it contains the Seven Limbs. Nut for ppl's daily personal practice, I would say Lama Chopa.
This is because amongst the people I know its commentary has been widely received. Also, HHDL recommends it as a way to maintain various yidam commitments using one liturgy. HHDL has propahated Lama Chopa very widely.
In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,
I must obtain control over my own mind.
Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,
and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.
-Atisha Dipamkara
brtsal ba'i bkhra drin
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Re: gaden nyen gyu?

Postby smcj » Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:39 am

...and it is claimed that whenever the owner of this book needs to know something related to sutra and tantra, the answer miraculously appears in it.

Kinda like a Vajrayana I-Ching!
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN
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