I'm not so sure about that. Have you been to any of his empowerments?Malcolm wrote:A point about what? He does not understand us.dzogchungpa wrote:I kind of agree, but he has had a lot of experience with westerners, and seems to be quite appreciatve of western culture. Maybe he has a point?Malcolm wrote: DKR has a bad attitude about westerners. Its a pity really.
Dzongsar Kyentse Rinpoche brief comment on Je Tsongkhapa
- dzogchungpa
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Re: Dzongsar Kyentse Rinpoche brief comment on Je Tsongkhapa
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
Re: Dzongsar Kyentse Rinpoche brief comment on Je Tsongkhapa
Are you just making this up or do you have evidence?heart wrote:Actually, Mahayana might have been taught by the Buddha. The archeological proofs are becoming just as solid as for the Hinayana scriptures.
/magnus
- dzogchungpa
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Re: Dzongsar Kyentse Rinpoche brief comment on Je Tsongkhapa
As someone said:Malcolm wrote:His argument is at base a species of cultural chauvinism. This cultural chauvinism that DKR frequently expresses in his lectures is distressingly blind.
One cannot disassociate emptiness from vividness.
This inseparability I was told is the Guru.
Recognizing this should help me
Not to be stuck with depending on chauvinist lamas.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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Re: Dzongsar Kyentse Rinpoche brief comment on Je Tsongkhapa
It's not that we have defilements and they don't. It's more that our culture creates chaotic and confused people. Our religion's credibility collapsed, and our society is complicated and quickly changing. Philosophically, politically, socially, interpersonally, privately, and even intimately our lives are chaotic. The tendency is for people to become either frightened and overwhelmed ot selfish and happy to get their own needs met. Their society was, on the village level, very simple and straightforward. Their religion, which was 100% credible, gave them a way to see their place in the universe, and it was good. Their educational system took a simple premise and developed it towards true and complete understanding. It's our fundamental chaos that is only expanded/elaborated on by our educational system that they can't get. "How can this person be so intelligent and educated and still be a whack job?" But bless their hearts, they do what they can.Sorry, but I have met many Tibetans and even Tibetan lamas and teachers, for the most part their minds are just as infected with worms as ours appear to be.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Re: Dzongsar Kyentse Rinpoche brief comment on Je Tsongkhapa
That's a rather romantic and charitable image.smcj wrote: It's not that we have defilements and they don't. It's more that our culture creates chaotic and confused people.
First world and third world problems differ, but nevertheless both sides have their struggles. For the poor, suffering is more physical. For the rich, suffering is more mental.
Re: Dzongsar Kyentse Rinpoche brief comment on Je Tsongkhapa
Really, what proof?heart wrote:Actually, Mahayana might have been taught by the Buddha. The archeological proofs are becoming just as solid as for the Hinayana scriptures.
/magnus
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Re: Dzongsar Kyentse Rinpoche brief comment on Je Tsongkhapa
There are no tibetan Kafkas, Borges or Phillip K. Dicks. And I'll wager that if you got a tibetan lama to read something by them they wouldn't get it, and they'd say, "Huh? WTF is this?" But when we read about Nagarjuna we take it as validating our existential confusion!Indrajala wrote:That's a rather romantic and charitable image.smcj wrote: It's not that we have defilements and they don't. It's more that our culture creates chaotic and confused people.
Last edited by Schrödinger’s Yidam on Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Re: Dzongsar Kyentse Rinpoche brief comment on Je Tsongkhapa
Sorry, I guess I just can't by into this way of thinking. Most of the people I know are neither chaotic or confused. In fact the most chaotic, the most confused people I have ever met, apart from rock and rollers, were Buddhists in Dharma centers.smcj wrote: It's more that our culture creates chaotic and confused people.
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Re: Dzongsar Kyentse Rinpoche brief comment on Je Tsongkhapa
How many people do you know that believe that there is no intrinsic purpose or meaning to life, and that we just have to make it enjoyable on our own terms? Or how about the opposite? How about the christian fundamentalist that sees the modern world as a threat and must be bullied into conforming to their beliefs?Malcolm wrote:Sorry, I guess I just can't by into this way of thinking. Most of the people I know are neither chaotic or confused. In fact the most chaotic, the most confused people I have ever met, apart from rock and rollers, were Buddhists in Dharma centers.smcj wrote: It's more that our culture creates chaotic and confused people.
Last edited by Schrödinger’s Yidam on Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
- Karma Dorje
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Re: Dzongsar Kyentse Rinpoche brief comment on Je Tsongkhapa
Yes, Magnus... what proof? After all, you know what they say: No soteriology without archeology.Malcolm wrote:Really, what proof?heart wrote:Actually, Mahayana might have been taught by the Buddha. The archeological proofs are becoming just as solid as for the Hinayana scriptures.
/magnus
"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava
-Padmasambhava
Re: Dzongsar Kyentse Rinpoche brief comment on Je Tsongkhapa
No, I have not, precisely because of the kinds of things he says.dzogchungpa wrote: I'm not so sure about that. Have you been to any of his empowerments?
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Re: Dzongsar Kyentse Rinpoche brief comment on Je Tsongkhapa
Well, I have. I think I am at least as western as you, and I did not get the impression that he does not understand us. Are we really that hard to understand? He's not stupid, you know.Malcolm wrote:No, I have not, precisely because of the kinds of things he says.dzogchungpa wrote:Have you been to any of his empowerments?
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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Re: Dzongsar Kyentse Rinpoche brief comment on Je Tsongkhapa
I've found him to be quite ecumenical in his criticism; he is intensely critical of the form of Tibetan institutions and the often realized potential for abuse. What on earth is this "Western mind" people keep talking about? As a "Westerner" I completely sympathize with his puzzlement about Buddhologists who aren't also practitioners. It has always amazed me to find creatures that spend their entire life studying something in the abstract without putting it into practice. I suppose it is a way to make a cozy little living and to increase one's cred with undergrad hippie chicks, but aside from that it seems a pretty bloodless discipline.dzogchungpa wrote:Well, I have. I think I am at least as western as you, and I did not get the impression that he does not understand us. Are we really that hard to understand? He's not stupid, you know.Malcolm wrote:No, I have not, precisely because of the kinds of things he says.dzogchungpa wrote:Have you been to any of his empowerments?
There's no yawning gulf between Tibetans and Westerners, as far as I can see. Same afflictions, same institutional bugbears, same overweening conceits of intellectual prowess...
"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava
-Padmasambhava
Re: Dzongsar Kyentse Rinpoche brief comment on Je Tsongkhapa
It is actually old news http://www.tricycle.com/feature/whose-b ... page=0%2C0Malcolm wrote:Really, what proof?heart wrote:Actually, Mahayana might have been taught by the Buddha. The archeological proofs are becoming just as solid as for the Hinayana scriptures.
/magnus
But it seems to take some time to land.
/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
- dzogchungpa
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Re: Dzongsar Kyentse Rinpoche brief comment on Je Tsongkhapa
Does that article provide some evidence that Mahayana might have been taught by the Buddha? I looked through it and I didn't see anything like that.heart wrote:It is actually old news http://www.tricycle.com/feature/whose-b ... page=0%2C0Malcolm wrote:Really, what proof?heart wrote:Actually, Mahayana might have been taught by the Buddha. The archeological proofs are becoming just as solid as for the Hinayana scriptures.
/magnus
But it seems to take some time to land.
/magnus
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
Re: Dzongsar Kyentse Rinpoche brief comment on Je Tsongkhapa
heart wrote: But it seems to take some time to land.
/magnus
Sorry Magnus, this does not rate.
Re: Dzongsar Kyentse Rinpoche brief comment on Je Tsongkhapa
dzogchungpa wrote:Well, I have. I think I am at least as western as you, and I did not get the impression that he does not understand us. Are we really that hard to understand? He's not stupid, you know.Malcolm wrote:No, I have not, precisely because of the kinds of things he says.dzogchungpa wrote:Have you been to any of his empowerments?
Many people with entrenched biases are not stupid.
Re: Dzongsar Kyentse Rinpoche brief comment on Je Tsongkhapa
It would be nice of Tibetan exponents of Buddhism such as Dzongsar would cease advertising how much more afflicted and so on Westerners are supposed to be. So far as I know, no incarnated Lama has ever been murdered by their own Western students.Karma Dorje wrote: There's no yawning gulf between Tibetans and Westerners, as far as I can see. Same afflictions, same institutional bugbears, same overweening conceits of intellectual prowess...
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Re: Dzongsar Kyentse Rinpoche brief comment on Je Tsongkhapa
Yes, and DJKR is not one of them.Malcolm wrote:Many people with entrenched biases are not stupid.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
Re: Dzongsar Kyentse Rinpoche brief comment on Je Tsongkhapa
Magnus, when you put it that way, the Buddha might just as easily have been a Jehovah's Witness.
When I consider the contributions of Religious Studies to Buddhology, I see what amounts to a tsunami of high-quality academic works on virtually every area of Buddhism imaginable. Scholars protest that the field is too huge, and they've only made a beginning, but this "Western" (read "academic"; there are a bunch of Asians involved too) influence is responsible for a veritable golden age of critical Buddhist scholarship which has broadened and deepened the understanding of "outsiders" and Buddhists alike. Just look at your library's holdings (not to mention internet-based resources), and tell me we're not living in a golden age, comparable to earlier transmissions of Buddhism and their associated cultural florescences.
When I consider the contributions of Religious Studies to Buddhology, I see what amounts to a tsunami of high-quality academic works on virtually every area of Buddhism imaginable. Scholars protest that the field is too huge, and they've only made a beginning, but this "Western" (read "academic"; there are a bunch of Asians involved too) influence is responsible for a veritable golden age of critical Buddhist scholarship which has broadened and deepened the understanding of "outsiders" and Buddhists alike. Just look at your library's holdings (not to mention internet-based resources), and tell me we're not living in a golden age, comparable to earlier transmissions of Buddhism and their associated cultural florescences.
(no longer participating on this board)