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 Post subject: You Don't Own your Body
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 4:38 pm 
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A new and interesting talk by Tsem Rinpoche
'You Don't Own your Body'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pJz_JnBjpI


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 6:48 pm 
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Waimeng, Why don't you tell us what you find interesting about this talk and perhaps open it up for conversation?

I mean, it's an interesting headline but I find it a little 'spam-like' that you dump Tsem Rinpoche links here and don't actively discuss... just saying.

:yinyang:


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 6:01 am 
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I asked this question about ownership many years back with colleagues and team mates do we own our own body at all?

And my argument was the the fact you do not have full control over your own body means that you actually do not own it. If we own something we will have full control over it. Not having full control meaning you can't stop your body from doing what you don't want it to. You can stop creatina actions, but you can;t stop the natural process of aging, decaying, falling ill and etc.

Does anyone have a better explanation of why we don't own our bodies?


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 7:32 am 
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To own the body implies there must be an owner. It implies a seperation between body and mind. It implies an "I" which is appart from the body.
If one examines this in deep meditation, there is nothing to find that could be the owner or the "I".
This is why it is not possible to own the body. It will fade away one day without a chance to hold it - by anybody.

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*** om vajra krodha hayagrīva hulu hulu hūm phat**


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 7:47 am 
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Yes mandala,it is very frustrating, but no amount of feedback, no matter how polite, will change the MO-believe me myself and many others have tried. Thing is the students only seem to know his teachings, so the best thing to do is use the topic as the basis of a broader discussion that exposes them to other viewpoints.

Incidentally, one of the mistaken views refuted in Buddhism is the idea of the aggregates as "I and mine". Since our bodies are the form aggregate perhaps this statement is a way of refuting the wrong view of I and mine that causes our clinging and confusion.

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In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,
I must obtain control over my own mind.
Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,
and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.
-Atisha Dipamkara
brtsal ba'i bkhra drin


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 7:51 am 
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From Berzin's Explanation of Thirty-seven Bodhisattva Practices – Session Three_ Bodhichitta and Bodhisattva Behavior


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Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 3:50 pm 
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Thanks JKhedrup, i agree it's good to get a broader convo going on.

Waimeng, thanks for replying.. it's interesting you bring up ownership of the body... but why just the body? If we're talking about ownership as meaning having total control over something, then we don't own ANYTHING or anyone, for that matter!

You can't guarantee you'll have the shirt on your back tomorrow, or your house, your favourite cup, your dog, your leg, your health, your money, your friendships, job..... and on and on... all these things will break/die/get lost/stolen or decay.. and that's largely out of our control.

But I think the real point of investigating 'owning your body" from a Buddhist perspective is what others have mentioned, coming to negating the existence of an "i" that owns the aggregates that make up what we call our body.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:28 am 
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mandala wrote:
it's interesting you bring up ownership of the body... but why just the body? If we're talking about ownership as meaning having total control over something, then we don't own ANYTHING or anyone, for that matter!

You can't guarantee you'll have the shirt on your back tomorrow, or your house, your favourite cup, your dog, your leg, your health, your money, your friendships, job..... and on and on... all these things will break/die/get lost/stolen or decay.. and that's largely out of our control.

But I think the real point of investigating 'owning your body" from a Buddhist perspective is what others have mentioned, coming to negating the existence of an "i" that owns the aggregates that make up what we call our body.


i definitely agree with this. i think in the sense of ultimate bodhicitta investigating the idea of ownership will always come down to the discovery that there is nothing to own and no one to own it. also, as konchog1 pointed out with the quote they posted, looking into ownership of our bodies can also help with developing relative bodhicitta as well. once we have taken the bodhisattva vow, we are supposed to look at our bodies as an invaluable tool for helping others. we are to be unattached to our bodies, but we still take good care of them so that we have a sound vehicle for benefiting other sentient beings. in that sense, too, we don't own our bodies to use in whatever way we want, to accomplish our own selfish benefit. it's a good meditation point, for sure!


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