YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened? - Page 5 - Dhamma Wheel

Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby Ben » Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:28 am

Hi Ed,
I had the same thought too!
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

alan
Posts: 2812
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:14 am
Location: Miramar beach, Fl.

Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby alan » Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:11 am

Yuk!

manasikara, You are making a basic mistake by assuming the Buddha is not to be trusted, but saying you follow the teachings anyway. Do you see the problem inherent in this position? It will always lead to uncertainty.
It's up to you to read and understand the suttas. Proclaiming an innocent agnosticism is not an acceptable position if you are really serious.

User avatar
manas
Posts: 2251
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:04 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby manas » Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:04 am

Last edited by manas on Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

Sanghamitta
Posts: 1614
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:21 am
Location: By the River Thames near London.

Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby Sanghamitta » Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:11 am

The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

User avatar
manas
Posts: 2251
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:04 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby manas » Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:49 am

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

User avatar
Kusala
Posts: 667
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:02 am

Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby Kusala » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:37 am

Hello Dhamma friends. Please remember the "Kalama Sutta"...
Image

"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby Ben » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:38 pm

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

Jhana4
Posts: 1309
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:20 pm
Location: U.S.A., Northeast

Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby Jhana4 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:49 pm

I read that sutta recently. This thread is about bogus gurus/teachers. That sutta is about learning how to recognize bogus teachings/teachers and learning how to identify the real thing.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

User avatar
manas
Posts: 2251
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:04 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby manas » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:53 am

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

alan
Posts: 2812
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:14 am
Location: Miramar beach, Fl.

Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby alan » Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:54 am

You are the only one who seems to feel offended here.

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:03 am

Come on everyone... I think it's time to depersonalise this a bit.

:focus:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

alan
Posts: 2812
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:14 am
Location: Miramar beach, Fl.

Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby alan » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:16 am

Hi All. For the record:
I don't attack people. I attack ideas. I attack poorly formed arguments, irrational statements, and nonsensical assumptions. I do this to provide clarity, introduce context, and to keep the discussion focused. I don't do it to make people feel bad.

alan
Posts: 2812
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:14 am
Location: Miramar beach, Fl.

Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby alan » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:35 am

Ok, now let's talk Kalama.
This is easily the most misunderstood of all the frequently quoted suttas. The typical (and always out of context) take is that "we should just trust our own judgement", or
"The Buddha says not to trust anyone", or "Buddhism is a religion that proclaims the individual should decide. You can choose your own path".
None of these are correct, but most have seeped into the ideology of Popular Buddhism to the degree that they are now taken as a given proposition.
This is just another reason to read the suttas for yourself. There is no substitute for an overall understanding of context.

whynotme
Posts: 479
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:52 am

Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby whynotme » Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:36 am

This sutta supports manasikara's opinion:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

And about believing, I think we should be open minded, judge things based on facts, reason and logic. We can have our own conclusions but should change them if there are new facts and evidences. And for unclear things, we should use probability science. And for things that we don't have any clue, we could gamble and let the dice (or kamma) decide :rolleye:

Regards.
Please stop following me

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:01 am


chownah
Posts: 6161
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby chownah » Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:40 am

My view is that not only should we trust our own judgement but that our own judgement is the only thing we have so better start sharpening that judgement or it is likely to lead you astray.
chownah

whynotme
Posts: 479
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:52 am

Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby whynotme » Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:43 am

Please stop following me

User avatar
manas
Posts: 2251
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:04 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby manas » Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:05 am

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

pegembara
Posts: 1140
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:39 am

Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby pegembara » Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:44 am

"Bhikkhus, the Dhamma well proclaimed by me thus is frank, open, evident, and stripped of padding. In this Dhamma well proclaimed by me thus, any who have simply faith in me, simply love for me, are destined for heaven."

MN 22


Faith is the first step. Without faith, how is one to proceed along the path?
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

User avatar
cooran
Posts: 8502
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby cooran » Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:36 am

Hello pegembara,

Would you mind pointing out exactly where in the Sutta the verse you quote can be found. Here are two translations - one by Thanissaro Bhikkhu and the other
Nyanaponika Thera:

MN 22 - Alagaddupama Sutta: The Water-Snake Simile
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .nypo.html

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---


Return to “Connections to Other Paths”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine