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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:59 am 
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Recently I attended HHST's Kalachakra empowerment in NYC. I would like to further my study and practice, but could not find any books on Kalachakra specific to the lineage transmitted by HHST (majority are on the Gelugpa transmissions). Is there any book anyone familiar with the tradition can recommend? Or there is no great differences between the various Kalachakra lineages and I can just refer to any available in the market?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:44 pm 
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pueraeternus wrote:
Recently I attended HHST's Kalachakra empowerment in NYC. I would like to further my study and practice, but could not find any books on Kalachakra specific to the lineage transmitted by HHST (majority are on the Gelugpa transmissions). Is there any book anyone familiar with the tradition can recommend? Or there is no great differences between the various Kalachakra lineages and I can just refer to any available in the market?


There is very little material by Sakya authors on Kalacakra. For the most part, only Lama Dampa, Takstang Lotsawa and Amyezhabs wrote anything of significance on Kalacakra, unless of course you count Buton as a Sakyapa -- the Gelug lineage comes from him.

M

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:04 am 
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Malcolm wrote:
There is very little material by Sakya authors on Kalacakra. For the most part, only Lama Dampa, Takstang Lotsawa and Amyezhabs wrote anything of significance on Kalacakra, unless of course you count Buton as a Sakyapa -- the Gelug lineage comes from him.

M


Noted - thanks Namdrol. I will have to make do with the current materials out there in the market then.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:54 am 
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I suppose I should point out that the Jonang lineage, Kalacakra specialists certainly, grew out of the Sakya lineage...

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:18 am 
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Here is a teaching that HE Chogye Trichen gave on the Kalchakra.

In general Kalachakra practitioners can fairly openly use sadhana texts (from Berzin). Most of the sadhana texts published are from the Gelug tradition and can be found at the International Kalachakra Network. Most of the Kalachakra sadhanas are also pretty complex. If you are a student of Khenpo Pema or Lama Kunga then ask them.

There is also a brief sadhana written by Jamgon Kongtrul. This was given out at the Palyul Kalachakra empowerment and teaching that HH Penor Rinpoche gave in 2007.

You could also ask HHST for a Sakya Kalachakra sadhana. HHST said in Kevelaer, Germany that it would be good to practice the Kalachakra but went on to basically note that the empowerment was mostly given as a blessing. Nonetheless, practicing it in the Sakya tradition is in fact possible.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:16 pm 
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conebeckham wrote:
I suppose I should point out that the Jonang lineage, Kalacakra specialists certainly, grew out of the Sakya lineage...


The Kalacakra of Jonang is not a Sakya lineage, it did not pass through the five founder masters, nor through Tshar or Ngor.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:17 pm 
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kirtu wrote:
Here is a teaching that HE Chogye Trichen gave on the Kalchakra.

In general Kalachakra practitioners can fairly openly use sadhana texts (from Berzin). Most of the sadhana texts published are from the Gelug tradition and can be found at the International Kalachakra Network. Most of the Kalachakra sadhanas are also pretty complex. If you are a student of Khenpo Pema or Lama Kunga then ask them.

There is also a brief sadhana written by Jamgon Kongtrul. This was given out at the Palyul Kalachakra empowerment and teaching that HH Penor Rinpoche gave in 2007.

You could also ask HHST for a Sakya Kalachakra sadhana. HHST said in Kevelaer, Germany that it would be good to practice the Kalachakra but went on to basically note that the empowerment was mostly given as a blessing. Nonetheless, practicing it in the Sakya tradition is in fact possible.

Kirt


When Chogye Trichen gave Kalacakra, he gave it from the Jonang tradition primarily.

HHST wrote a short sadhana for the Kalacakra in NYC.

I never said it was impossible to practice Kalacakra in Sakya, just that it is not a main practice in Sakya. However, since Chogye Trichen taught it fairly often, perhaps one of his successors will continue his teaching tradition.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:17 pm 
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Thanks Cone and Kirtu.

Malcolm wrote:
HHST wrote a short sadhana for the Kalacakra in NYC.


Yes. It is a really short sadhana. It definitely something to start with, but I am also looking for more substantial texts.

There is this book on Geshe Ngawang Ghargyey's teachings on Kalachakra that he gave at the Sakya Tegchen Choling in Seattle in 1982. Would this be suitable for someone who had initiation from Sakya? :)

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:28 pm 
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pueraeternus wrote:
Thanks Cone and Kirtu.

Malcolm wrote:
HHST wrote a short sadhana for the Kalacakra in NYC.


Yes. It is a really short sadhana. It definitely something to start with, but I am also looking for more substantial texts.

There is this book on Geshe Ngawang Ghargyey's teachings on Kalachakra that he gave at the Sakya Tegchen Choling in Seattle in 1982. Would this be suitable for someone who had initiation from Sakya? :)



In Sakya, the main Kalacakra practice is the preliminary practice for the six yogas; it is a simplified form in one face and two arms. Chogye Trichen remarked this was all one needed.

M

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:55 am 
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Malcolm wrote:

In Sakya, the main Kalacakra practice is the preliminary practice for the six yogas; it is a simplified form in one face and two arms. Chogye Trichen remarked this was all one needed.

M


Noted, thanks. That should be easily found.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:37 pm 
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pueraeternus wrote:
Malcolm wrote:

In Sakya, the main Kalacakra practice is the preliminary practice for the six yogas; it is a simplified form in one face and two arms. Chogye Trichen remarked this was all one needed.

M


Noted, thanks. That should be easily found.


I am not sure the text has been translated. But it is in the collection of main daily sadhanas used in Sakya.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:42 pm 
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Malcolm wrote:
conebeckham wrote:
I suppose I should point out that the Jonang lineage, Kalacakra specialists certainly, grew out of the Sakya lineage...


The Kalacakra of Jonang is not a Sakya lineage, it did not pass through the five founder masters, nor through Tshar or Ngor.

Sure. Never meant to imply otherwise. But masters of the Jonang were originally Sakyapas, before they became Kalachakrapadas, right? And later Jonang masters wrote authoritatively about Sakya practice, as well..including the Kama traditions of Kilaya and Vishuddha....

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:44 pm 
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conebeckham wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
conebeckham wrote:
I suppose I should point out that the Jonang lineage, Kalacakra specialists certainly, grew out of the Sakya lineage...


The Kalacakra of Jonang is not a Sakya lineage, it did not pass through the five founder masters, nor through Tshar or Ngor.

Sure. Never meant to imply otherwise. But masters of the Jonang were originally Sakyapas, before they became Kalachakrapadas, right? And later Jonang masters wrote authoritatively about Sakya practice, as well..including the Kama traditions of Kilaya and Vishuddha....


Only Dolbupa. The Sakyas and the Karma Kagyus both try and take credit for Jonang. The truth is that Jonang has influence from both.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:50 pm 
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Taranatha wrote about Lam Dre, IiRC, and certainly about Kilaya and Vishuddha, right?

Also, Shangpa practices were and are obviously included in Jonang.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:53 pm 
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conebeckham wrote:
Taranatha wrote about Lam Dre, IiRC, and certainly about Kilaya and Vishuddha, right?

Also, Shangpa practices were and are obviously included in Jonang.


Sure, Jonang inherited a lot of Sakya practices, but it also went the other way. There are a lot of practice in Sakya from Jonang originally. HHST made the comment the other day that the Jonang schools was the original Rimed tradition.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:57 pm 
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That's a cool comment! Long live Kyabje Dorje Chang Sakya Trizin!

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 11:30 pm 
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Malcolm wrote:
I am not sure the text has been translated. But it is in the collection of main daily sadhanas used in Sakya.


From these 2 websites, it seems HHST was transmitted the Kalachakra from both HHDL and Chogye Trichen Rinpoche (6 different lineages). Do you happen to know for the recent NYC transmissions, which lineage he transmitted?

http://sakyausa.org/h-h-sakya-trizin/
http://www.gemsofyogadubai.com/index.ph ... Itemid=117

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:05 am 
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pueraeternus wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
I am not sure the text has been translated. But it is in the collection of main daily sadhanas used in Sakya.


From these 2 websites, it seems HHST was transmitted the Kalachakra from both HHDL and Chogye Trichen Rinpoche (6 different lineages). Do you happen to know for the recent NYC transmissions, which lineage he transmitted?

http://sakyausa.org/h-h-sakya-trizin/
http://www.gemsofyogadubai.com/index.ph ... Itemid=117


The Vajramala is collection of template empowerments, so it is a full empowerment, but less elaborate than the two main traditions of Kalacakra (Rwa and Dro).

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:26 am 
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Malcolm wrote:
The Vajramala is collection of template empowerments, so it is a full empowerment, but less elaborate than the two main traditions of Kalacakra (Rwa and Dro).


So would this upcoming book be something that would help?
http://www.amazon.com/The-Vajra-Rosary- ... ary+tantra

The synopsis indicates the text is mostly about the Guhyasamaja. Isn't this rather different from the Kalachakra (at least on the completion stage)? I am basing this on what I read from Daniel Cozort's book on Highest Yoga Tantra.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:43 am 
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Found this during my search. What do you guys think?

Synthesizing a Liturgical Heritage - Abhayakaragupta's Vajravali and the Kalacakramandala - Yong-Hyun Lee
http://vajrayana.faithweb.com/vajravali.PDF

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