Guru Rinpoche practices within the Sakya tradition

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Guru Rinpoche practices within the Sakya tradition

Postby Terma » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:32 pm

I am excited to see that HH Sakya Trinzen will be coming to Toronto in May to give teachings and empowerments. I was a little surprised and excited to see that he will be giving a Guru Rinpoche empowerment that weekend. I was planning to go, as I thought it would be a great chance to make a connection with HH and the Sakya tradition. But when I saw the planned Guru Rinpoche empowerment, I was especially pleased, as I practice in a terma tradition so it mainly revolves around Guru Rinpoche. I have received Guru Rinpoche empowerment from my own Guru, but I became curious as I know other practices are generally more emphasized in the Sakya tradition. I know much less about the Sakya tradition, so I was wondering about the importance of Guru Rinpoche practices in this school. Is it actually emphasized more than I had thought it was?

By the way, is anyone else planning on attending the teachings on this weekend? It actually falls on the Victoria Day long weekend here...
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Re: Guru Rinpoche practices within the Sakya tradition

Postby conebeckham » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:39 pm

I have a somewhat related question......sorry I can't help with yours.
But In Kagyu we practice Chakrasamvara on Guru Rinpoche days...wondering if Sakyapas do Hevajra puja and tsok, etc.??
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Re: Guru Rinpoche practices within the Sakya tradition

Postby Malcolm » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:51 pm

conebeckham wrote:I have a somewhat related question......sorry I can't help with yours.
But In Kagyu we practice Chakrasamvara on Guru Rinpoche days...wondering if Sakyapas do Hevajra puja and tsok, etc.??



No, Vajrayogini is done on both tenth days.

Usually HHST gives the Padmasambhava from Apong Tertons treasures.
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Re: Guru Rinpoche practices within the Sakya tradition

Postby conebeckham » Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:01 pm

Thanks, Malcolm...that's interesting!
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Re: Guru Rinpoche practices within the Sakya tradition

Postby Terma » Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:28 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Usually HHST gives the Padmasambhava from Apong Tertons treasures.


Thanks Malcolm. I learned a little bit today, after googling Apong Terton. HHST's previous incarnation as well as an emanation of Mutik Tsenpo I think?

Interesting crossover. Certainly a great connection for me to make here with my own conditions. How fortunate!

Will HH be giving teachings in between empowerments as well? Public audiences are mentioned, but I am not sure if this is intended to mean the same thing. I look forward to this special occasion and oppurtunity.
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Re: Guru Rinpoche practices within the Sakya tradition

Postby Kunga » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:38 pm

It depends. Monasteries - particulary those under the remit of the Khon family - do Guru Rinpoche tsog on the 10th day. The Dzongpa lineage also holds this tradition. I know some Ngorpa centres who also do this. Doing the self-blessing of Kachoma is often private and extra curricular.

HH holds a number of lineages and confers a number of empowerments of GR on request. There is a noteable Sakyapa terton in the person of Tharig Rinpoche, who revealed a cycle of teachings relating to Guru Dragpo - this cycle is emphasised to the present day in Tharig gompa in Boudha, and in associated centres. it is not like the standard Guru Dragpo btw, he is multi headed and multi armed.
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Re: Guru Rinpoche practices within the Sakya tradition

Postby Malcolm » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:49 pm

Kunga wrote:Doing the self-blessing of Kachoma is often private and extra curricular.


You would know better than I what is done in Sakya monasteries in India.

I was just talking about the tsog, not the self blessing which is little elaborate and can only be done by those people who have done a full retreat.

Also, I was mentioning from the perspective of what is normally done in western Sakya centers, I wasn't really including monasteries in India.

The idea that the first tenth day is for Heruka practices and the second tenth day is for Dakini practices is based on the flow of the white bodhicittas. But in general the first tenth day ganapuja is for increasing merit and the second is for purifying samaya, strictly speaking.
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Re: Guru Rinpoche practices within the Sakya tradition

Postby Kunga » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:59 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Kunga wrote:Doing the self-blessing of Kachoma is often private and extra curricular.


You would know better than I what is done in Sakya monasteries in India.

I was just talking about the tsog, not the self blessing which is little elaborate and can only be done by those people who have done a full retreat.

Also, I was mentioning from the perspective of what is normally done in western Sakya centers, I wasn't really including monasteries in India.

The idea that the first tenth day is for Heruka practices and the second tenth day is for Dakini practices is based on the flow of the white bodhicittas. But in general the first tenth day ganapuja is for increasing merit and the second is for purifying samaya, strictly speaking.


Sure, agreed, in Western Dharma centres it is as you say, particularly, I think, because the VY transmission is more frequently given and taught. The GR tsog is complicated and not easy to fit into western schedules, and actually Nyingmapa in origin.
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Re: Guru Rinpoche practices within the Sakya tradition

Postby Motova » Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:25 am

What are the requirements to receive these empowerments? Green Tara and Guru Rinpoche*
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Re: Guru Rinpoche practices within the Sakya tradition

Postby Lindama » Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:48 am

I was fortunate to be with HH Sakya Trinzen for the Red Tara empowerment in Northern CA a few years ago. As usual, I came in to cook for my admittance. 300 ppl from around the world. lucky life! Seems if you can get there, that's all that's needed.
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Re: Guru Rinpoche practices within the Sakya tradition

Postby kirtu » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:32 pm

Motova wrote:What are the requirements to receive these empowerments? Green Tara and Guru Rinpoche*


For almost all Sakya empowerments that are advertised publicly there are no actual requirements. Technically this is not true but that is the case in practice.

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Re: Guru Rinpoche practices within the Sakya tradition

Postby narraboth » Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:10 pm

conebeckham wrote:I have a somewhat related question......sorry I can't help with yours.
But In Kagyu we practice Chakrasamvara on Guru Rinpoche days...wondering if Sakyapas do Hevajra puja and tsok, etc.??


The 10th is not only 'guru rinpoche day', although it happens to be. Actually in Sarma tradition, 10th and 25th (so called the two 10th day, for waxing and waning moon) are also important days. It's accurate to do chakrasamvara on 10th day and vajrayogini on 25th (as some Kagyupa do), but there's nothing wrong to do vajrayogini on both dates as the essence of chakrasamvara is included in vajrayogini teaching.
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Re: Guru Rinpoche practices within the Sakya tradition

Postby Sherlock » Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:13 pm

kirtu wrote:
Motova wrote:What are the requirements to receive these empowerments? Green Tara and Guru Rinpoche*


For almost all Sakya empowerments that are advertised publicly there are no actual requirements. Technically this is not true but that is the case in practice.

Kirt

In a Vajrakilaya empowerment by HHST that was advertised publicly there was a requirement to decide an amount of the mantra to recite each day even just one and to stick to it.
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Re: Guru Rinpoche practices within the Sakya tradition

Postby narraboth » Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:32 pm

Kunga wrote:Sure, agreed, in Western Dharma centres it is as you say, particularly, I think, because the VY transmission is more frequently given and taught. The GR tsog is complicated and not easy to fit into western schedules, and actually Nyingmapa in origin.


well, depends on how elaborate you want to do Guru rinpoche tsog... Nyingma tsog ritual is a little bit different from Sarma ritual, but you can always find some brief text to do (I believe Rigpa centre uses brief tsog texts). In sense of 'western schedules', they are all on the same date of Tibetan calendar.

Anyway, back to the topic, I don't know Sakyapa have any 'main pratice' text for Guru Rinpoche, but in the collection of sadhana, Drubta Kuntu, the famous Guru Rinpoche terma cycle 'Lama Sangdu' (discovered by Guru Chowang) is included in a condensed form. Also at least one wrathful Guru rinpoche terma is included.

HHST was known as the reincarnation of Apong Terton, at the same time Sakya Dachen Rinpoche had very strong link with Nyingma teaching. Dachen Rinpoche spent a bit time in Dzongsar to receive teaching, including nyinma, from Dzongsar Khyentse Chokgyi Lodro (HHST also have received nyingthig cycle from Khyentse, according to the biography). Rinpoche gave Longchen Nyingthig major empowerment (Shitro?) in the US i think? Couple years ago when Dachen Rinpoche visited Taiwan, he even gave CheTsun Nyingthig, a very special Dzogchen cycle.
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Re: Guru Rinpoche practices within the Sakya tradition

Postby narraboth » Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:39 pm

Motova wrote:What are the requirements to receive these empowerments? Green Tara and Guru Rinpoche*


you can try to read a bit about samaya and empowerment.

If you really want to receive valid empowerment, yourself has to be prepared, you will be:
1. becoming a buddhist formally, aka. taking refuge. After taking refuge you will have some rules to follow.
2. taking at least some buddhist disciplines, ex. do not kill etc.
3. try to understand what is bodhicitta, as you will need it as a base for any empowerment.

and then we can talk about other requirements.
Nowadays some people focus a lot on 'how many mantras i need to chant everyday?' but actuallly it's similiarly important, if not more important, to keep the common vows/requirements.

Guru rinpoche empowerment is usually an anuttarayoga tantra empowerment, green tara maybe not. For anuttarayoga tantra empowerment, there are some more vows have to be kept.
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Re: Guru Rinpoche practices within the Sakya tradition

Postby conebeckham » Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:23 pm

narraboth wrote:
Kunga wrote:Sure, agreed, in Western Dharma centres it is as you say, particularly, I think, because the VY transmission is more frequently given and taught. The GR tsog is complicated and not easy to fit into western schedules, and actually Nyingmapa in origin.


well, depends on how elaborate you want to do Guru rinpoche tsog... Nyingma tsog ritual is a little bit different from Sarma ritual, but you can always find some brief text to do (I believe Rigpa centre uses brief tsog texts). In sense of 'western schedules', they are all on the same date of Tibetan calendar.


Sure, Nyingma tsoks and Sarma Tsoks do have different ritual outlines, details, etc., no doubt. But in my experience, Nyingma tsoks, especially in the various terma traditions, are quite a bit shorter than Sarma procedures. The main thing I think is the amount of liturgy.....

Lots of Kagyupas do Konchok Chidu, Peaceful Guru, for instance, and there's a pretty condensed (but profound) tsok in that tradition.
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Re: Guru Rinpoche practices within the Sakya tradition

Postby Malcolm » Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:31 pm

conebeckham wrote:
narraboth wrote:
Kunga wrote:Sure, agreed, in Western Dharma centres it is as you say, particularly, I think, because the VY transmission is more frequently given and taught. The GR tsog is complicated and not easy to fit into western schedules, and actually Nyingmapa in origin.


well, depends on how elaborate you want to do Guru rinpoche tsog... Nyingma tsog ritual is a little bit different from Sarma ritual, but you can always find some brief text to do (I believe Rigpa centre uses brief tsog texts). In sense of 'western schedules', they are all on the same date of Tibetan calendar.


Sure, Nyingma tsoks and Sarma Tsoks do have different ritual outlines, details, etc., no doubt. But in my experience, Nyingma tsoks, especially in the various terma traditions, are quite a bit shorter than Sarma procedures. The main thing I think is the amount of liturgy.....

Lots of Kagyupas do Konchok Chidu, Peaceful Guru, for instance, and there's a pretty condensed (but profound) tsok in that tradition.


I forgot to mention that in some cases on the first tenth day a Sapan Guru Yoga might be done, or perhaps a Lamdre Guru offering.
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Re: Guru Rinpoche practices within the Sakya tradition

Postby Kunga » Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:33 pm

narraboth wrote:
Kunga wrote:Sure, agreed, in Western Dharma centres it is as you say, particularly, I think, because the VY transmission is more frequently given and taught. The GR tsog is complicated and not easy to fit into western schedules, and actually Nyingmapa in origin.


well, depends on how elaborate you want to do Guru rinpoche tsog... Nyingma tsog ritual is a little bit different from Sarma ritual, but you can always find some brief text to do (I believe Rigpa centre uses brief tsog texts). In sense of 'western schedules', they are all on the same date of Tibetan calendar.

Anyway, back to the topic, I don't know Sakyapa have any 'main pratice' text for Guru Rinpoche, but in the collection of sadhana, Drubta Kuntu, the famous Guru Rinpoche terma cycle 'Lama Sangdu' (discovered by Guru Chowang) is included in a condensed form. Also at least one wrathful Guru rinpoche terma is included.

HHST was known as the reincarnation of Apong Terton, at the same time Sakya Dachen Rinpoche had very strong link with Nyingma teaching. Dachen Rinpoche spent a bit time in Dzongsar to receive teaching, including nyinma, from Dzongsar Khyentse Chokgyi Lodro (HHST also have received nyingthig cycle from Khyentse, according to the biography). Rinpoche gave Longchen Nyingthig major empowerment (Shitro?) in the US i think? Couple years ago when Dachen Rinpoche visited Taiwan, he even gave CheTsun Nyingthig, a very special Dzogchen cycle.


Yes, but as I said, the main Guru Rinpoche practice as done in Khon lineage Sakya monasteries in Asia is pretty complex, and there is not a simplified version of it in translation. It is a Nyingmapa text and includes the 8 manifestations of GR. Sarma rituals are often much simpler and the translations are available.

As I also said earlier, there is indeed a 'Sakyapa text' for Guru Rinpoche - one of the treasures of a previous Tharig Tulku,who was a Sakyapa, which is one of the main practices in monasteries and centres affiliated with Tharig Rinpoche. It is in fact a cycle relating to a multi-headed and multi-armed form of Guru Drakpo.

Also, there is the guru yoga of Wangdu Nyingpo, who was considered the '2nd Guru Drakpo' and is portrayed in wrathful form. The association with the Khon family in particular and GR is very strong.

In Dagchen Rinpoche's centre in Seattle they do the Shower of Blessings tsog on the 10th day. I myself use the text from that centre.
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Re: Guru Rinpoche practices within the Sakya tradition

Postby kirtu » Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:34 am

Sherlock wrote:
kirtu wrote:
Motova wrote:What are the requirements to receive these empowerments? Green Tara and Guru Rinpoche*


For almost all Sakya empowerments that are advertised publicly there are no actual requirements. Technically this is not true but that is the case in practice.

Kirt

In a Vajrakilaya empowerment by HHST that was advertised publicly there was a requirement to decide an amount of the mantra to recite each day even just one and to stick to it.


Of course there are requirements after the empowerment but even these are usually limited to a handful of empowerments in general (for specific people and in specific circumstances this may also vary). And of course, as narraboth mentions there actually are requirements and commitments even prior to the empowerment. But for publicly advertised Sakya empowerments usually people don't have to have finished ngondro or completed a set of retreats, etc. These are common requirements in some other lineages.

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Re: Guru Rinpoche practices within the Sakya tradition

Postby narraboth » Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:51 pm

Kunga wrote:As I also said earlier, there is indeed a 'Sakyapa text' for Guru Rinpoche - one of the treasures of a previous Tharig Tulku,who was a Sakyapa, which is one of the main practices in monasteries and centres affiliated with Tharig Rinpoche. It is in fact a cycle relating to a multi-headed and multi-armed form of Guru Drakpo.

Also, there is the guru yoga of Wangdu Nyingpo, who was considered the '2nd Guru Drakpo' and is portrayed in wrathful form. The association with the Khon family in particular and GR is very strong.

In Dagchen Rinpoche's centre in Seattle they do the Shower of Blessings tsog on the 10th day. I myself use the text from that centre.


well, I think if it's a terma it's a terma, it's a text from Guru rinpoche's time. Therefore I wouldn't say it's a 'Sakyapa text of Guru rinpoche'. Any lineage guru can reveal a terma, but it shouldn't be too different from other terma. The style and content has to be simliar to other terma, which will be very Nyingma style, and won't be the same as typical Sakya practice.

I didn't know Dagchen rinpoche's temple do shower of blessing (I think you mean the one made by Ju Mipham). It seems like rinpoche is indeed very strongly link to Nyingma.
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