Appearances emptiness.

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Appearances emptiness.

Postby muni » Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:37 am

The song of appearance emptiness which is self-arisen and self-liberated

All appearances are self-arisen and self-liberated,
All emptiness is self-arisen and self-liberated,
When you realize the essential meaning of appearance emptiness as self-arisen and self-liberated,
All phenomena are self-arisen and self-liberated.



A Song of the Equality of Appearances and Emptiness

Not to know the equality of appearance emptiness
And get attached to appearances alone is delusion
But to get attached to emptiness alone is delusion too
If you know the equality of appearance emptiness
There's no need to get caught up in or give up phenomena
These appearances and emptiness
What you must do is to rest in the spaciousness
Of the equality of appearance emptiness.



While singing vajra songs and dancing vajra dances,
When all thoughts and fabrications are ceased,
Let your mind rest in the state free from fabrications.
E MA how amazing - this wonderful Dharma!

http://khenpo-rinpoche.blogspot.com/
muni
 
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Re: Appearances emptiness.

Postby Mariusz » Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:50 am

muni wrote:The song of appearance emptiness which is self-arisen and self-liberated

All appearances are self-arisen and self-liberated,
All emptiness is self-arisen and self-liberated,
When you realize the essential meaning of appearance emptiness as self-arisen and self-liberated,
All phenomena are self-arisen and self-liberated.



A Song of the Equality of Appearances and Emptiness

Not to know the equality of appearance emptiness
And get attached to appearances alone is delusion
But to get attached to emptiness alone is delusion too
If you know the equality of appearance emptiness
There's no need to get caught up in or give up phenomena
These appearances and emptiness
What you must do is to rest in the spaciousness
Of the equality of appearance emptiness.



While singing vajra songs and dancing vajra dances,
When all thoughts and fabrications are ceased,
Let your mind rest in the state free from fabrications.
E MA how amazing - this wonderful Dharma!

http://khenpo-rinpoche.blogspot.com/

Joyful to see Rinpoche self-arisen and self-liberated as usual. Thanx for link :thanks:
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Re: Appearances emptiness.

Postby DarwidHalim » Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:57 am

In Dzogchen teaching, such as Kunjed Gyalpo or All Creating King, it mentioned that this notion of emptiness appearances can cause some kind of reality to the practitioner. This error is very subtle.

Some people get attach to the idea of emptiness. Because of that, they think that the reality is empty, and from this cause (which is emptiness), appearances (which is effect) appear.

So, emptiness is view as the cause, and appearances is viewed as the effect. This view is error.

On the other hand, this emptiness and appearances can also give rise to the notion as if this reality is divided into these 2 side: Emptiness and Appearances.

Because that practitioner has this idea, he is struggling so hard to join these 2, as if there are really two things need to be joined.

There is a constrain or struggle in this process.

This is the subtle defect.

In one statement from Kunjed Gyalpo,
"Could the essence, which has never been born and has never manisfested, ever become the object of definition?"

That statement tells us that we even cannot put the label of appearance in whatever we see, hear, think, smell, touch, and taste. It is just because there is never ever an object of definition can be formed or born or manifested

Things appear in the way without any base or object of definition. According to the last sense, saying things appear is then an error.

If there is no base, we can only know it in mute. Can be known, but cannot be described, just because we cannot find the base of object that is acting as the basis to form the words, to form the sentences.

It can only be known or understood in mute.

Once we put that notion appearance, we already have the subtle problem of division: appearance and emptiness.

The next coming problem is finding the union or struggle to find the union of these two.

However, if we can go to the 4th level of Mahamudra: Yoga of Non-meditation, which is also the view of Atiyoga, These two words - Appearances and Emptiness are just concept, which in reality we cannot find where they are.

THey are just the tools to bring us to the next level, where appearances and emptiness can be seen as fault.

In Kunjed Gyalpo, it is warned that these two words can grap us somewhere into subtle erroneous view.

These two words are very helpful, but also can become an undetected problem.
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!
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Re: Appearances emptiness.

Postby muni » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:38 pm

Exhausted mind makes expensive bridges to cross to the far away shore... to seek its footprints.

Mute.

"If we have concepts about; appaerances are placed at one side and emptiness at another, understanding cannot be". Lama Mipham.

Prajnaparamita: perfection of wisdom is beyond thought, it should not be conceived of, for it is inconceivable.
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Re: Appearances emptiness.

Postby justsit » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:40 pm

DarwidHalim wrote:Because that practitioner has this idea...

To whom are you referring?
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Re: Appearances emptiness.

Postby In the bone yard » Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:48 pm

Hi Darwid,

That looks very profound, where did you obtain this teaching?
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Re: Appearances emptiness.

Postby Mariusz » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:46 am

justsit wrote:
DarwidHalim wrote:Because that practitioner has this idea...

To whom are you referring?

Perhaps to me because of course not to Rinpoche :smile: But concerning Madhyamaka I've always said all divisions, such the 2 truths, such Appearances and emptiness, are only from POV of worldly beings, are only their "the seeming", relative.

Concerning Mahamudra or Dzogchen, I'm not investigating here, but only practicing what my master of Dzogchen instructed me.

If He wants to seek it, the closest for me is the interpretation of Tsongkhapa. In „The Two Truths Debate. Tsongkhapa and Gorampa on the Middle Way”; By Sonam Thakchoe; Wisdom Pub. Bostan 2007) it is said the 2 Truths are separate according to Tsongkhapa, so for Him only Buddhas perceive both simultanously: the dependently arising "it" and lack of inherent existence of "it":

Tsongkhapa's “The two natures” correspond to deceptive or nondeceptive modes of appearances. For example the table is perceived and the table's emptiness of inherent existence is also perceived. The agent who cognized the two truths may be one and the same individual. Ordinary beings have only conceptual access to ultimate, while aryas at the path direct access. Only Enlightened beings have simultanous access to both truths
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