Upon becoming enlightened what stops ignorance from re-asserting itself?
If that is not possible then does that make enlightenment permanent?
How does that sit with the second turning of the wheel of dharma upon which the fundamental teaching that everything is voidness?
Permanence and Enlightenment
- AdmiralJim
- Posts: 162
- Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:11 pm
- Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Permanence and Enlightenment
I don't know where we are going but it will be nice when we get there
Re: Permanence and Enlightenment
Having realized emptiness, it is impossible to forget that realization.AdmiralJim wrote:Upon becoming enlightened what stops ignorance from re-asserting itself?
When a seed is scorched, it is permanently incapable of giving rise to a sprout, likewise, when the seed of ignorance is scorched, it can never give rise to the result, affliction, againIf that is not possible then does that make enlightenment permanent?
- AdmiralJim
- Posts: 162
- Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:11 pm
- Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Re: Permanence and Enlightenment
Thank you for answering my questions although it doesn't address my last point of whether that contradicts voidness.
I don't know where we are going but it will be nice when we get there
Re: Permanence and Enlightenment
AdmiralJim wrote:Thank you for answering my questions although it doesn't address my last point of whether that contradicts voidness.
It does. Because of the realization of emptiness, the seeds of affliction are scorched.
N
Re: Permanence and Enlightenment
Yet only a Buddha has completely removed afflictions right?Namdrol wrote: It does. Because of the realization of emptiness, the seeds of affliction are scorched.
N
The very pulsing of dependent origination
Is the primordial face of the Tathāgata.
Like blood and veins and heart
- The two truths meet everywhere.
- André A. Pais
Is the primordial face of the Tathāgata.
Like blood and veins and heart
- The two truths meet everywhere.
- André A. Pais
Re: Permanence and Enlightenment
But it is possible to forget one's realization in the next life, until one is 8th bhumi, is that right?Namdrol wrote: Having realized emptiness, it is impossible to forget that realization.
The very pulsing of dependent origination
Is the primordial face of the Tathāgata.
Like blood and veins and heart
- The two truths meet everywhere.
- André A. Pais
Is the primordial face of the Tathāgata.
Like blood and veins and heart
- The two truths meet everywhere.
- André A. Pais
Re: Permanence and Enlightenment
having answered to "who has realized" you have answered to your question ...xabir wrote:But it is possible to forget one's realization in the next life, until one is 8th bhumi, is that right?Namdrol wrote: Having realized emptiness, it is impossible to forget that realization.
Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
- PadmaVonSamba
- Posts: 9455
- Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am
Re: Permanence and Enlightenment
When you truly know or experience something, you don't stop knowing it or return to a time when that experience did not occur.AdmiralJim wrote:Upon becoming enlightened what stops ignorance from re-asserting itself?
If that is not possible then does that make enlightenment permanent?
Ignorance is not the result, it is the cause (of suffering). It is a kind of not knowing. It's like a hole in the ground. Once you fill it up, it doesn't become a hole again.
"everything is voidness" is not an accurate phrase. Accurately put, all apparent phenomena arise conditionally and have no intrinsic reality.AdmiralJim wrote:
How does that sit with the second turning of the wheel of dharma upon which the fundamental teaching that everything is voidness?
I don't see where enlightenment has any bearing on this.
If you are asking whether or not enlightenment is beyond conditionality, then let's define the term enlightenment, for the purpose of this discussion.
Let's say that Enlightenment, in the Buddhist context, refers to complete extinction of the causes of suffering and mental anguish. "Freedom from suffering and the causes of suffering".
You can throw in various powers and omnipotence and whatever you like, but I am trying to keep the definition uncluttered.
So, on the one hand, if we compare being enlightened to not being enlightened, then enlightenment is conditional. It only happens in relation to not being enlightened. That's why one person is seen as a Buddha and the next person isn't.
However, the next person also possesses the same potential for enlightenment as the Buddha. And although realizing that potential is conditional, because it depends on many factors such as motivation, right view, effort, and so on, The actual point of realization, of enlightenment, that is not conditional because by nature it's very essence, what makes enlightenment enlightenment, is its nonconditionality. Realization does not depend on shifting circumstances.
So, referring back to the first part of your question, about returning ignorance, Realization, or Enlightenment does not hinge on ignorance somehow creeping back in, because at this point the contradictions and dualities which appear to arise due to ignorance are totally resolved.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.