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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:13 am 
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My first ngondro I did with a Lama who has one accumulate do all of the accumulations concurrently rather than sequentially. That ngondro took 4 years in working, married life.

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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:53 pm 
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Yudron wrote:
My first ngondro I did with a Lama who has one accumulate do all of the accumulations concurrently rather than sequentially. That ngondro took 4 years in working, married life.


I didn't notice I was in the Kagyu Forum, sorry. I've done only Nyingma ngondros.

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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:11 pm 
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Yudron wrote:
Yudron wrote:
My first ngondro I did with a Lama who has one accumulate do all of the accumulations concurrently rather than sequentially. That ngondro took 4 years in working, married life.


I didn't notice I was in the Kagyu Forum, sorry. I've done only Nyingma ngondros.
Well you should be sorry! You nasty, naughty, nyingma you! :tongue:

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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:30 pm 
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At the Vajra Yoga center in SF, Drubpon Gonpo Dorje Rinpoche is starting a cycle of Co-Emergent Mahamudra teachings. There are four preliminaries: Contemplation of Impermanence and Death, Guru Yoga, Vajrasattva Recitation and Mandala Offering. He researched Lord Jigten Sumgon's texts where it is recommended that each preliminary should be completed in at least two weeks of solitary retreat, which comes out to about 150 hours. The 100,000 came after about the 13th Century when monastery practice became the mainstay, but in Milarepa's time of lay practitioners it was not like that. He is planning to allow students to complete at least a three day retreat (10 hrs / day), and then allow the student to complete the remainder of the 150 hours at home. When the preliminaries are complete, then he will give the pointing out instructions and the retreats of mahamudra. From now on, the focus will be on quality of recitation, rather than quantity. HH Drikung Chetsang Rinpoche gave his approval for Westerners to be trained in this way. It acknowledges not only that Westerners don't have sufficient time to complete 100,000 recitations, but also it acknowledges the merit Westerners have already gathered, typically being intelligent, well-educated, and having comfortable living situations. HH explains that the practice is simpler, but the blessings are much greater.


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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:13 pm 
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Very interesting, deepbluehum!

I really agree with the comment about the merit that westerner's posses. I think I heard in a teaching years ago that way, way back when (in India), Vajrayana initially was only taught to the upper echelon's of the society, ie. kings, nobleman...And this was due to their previous accumulation of merit, as it was taught those without sufficient merit would not likely succeed in practicing the Vajrayana. So in a way it makes sense that there are so many Westerners practicing Vajrayana in these times; due to our merit, and looking at things in terms of the merit that we have, all the more reason to be diligent and make us of this situation before this merit is exhausted.

But getting back to topic...

I must admit, the prospect of a condensed ngondro in this way and format is quite attractive! But alas, my teacher is fairly traditional in this way so I will do the full deal. :tongue: besides it is an amazing practice, so no complaints here! But time is a factor for so many people these days.

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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:16 pm 
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Yudron wrote:

I didn't notice I was in the Kagyu Forum, sorry. I've done only Nyingma ngondros.


Actually, perhaps I should start a new topic in the general section, as the ngondro I am doing comes from a terma cycle so it is not actually the Mahamudra/kagyu ngondro.


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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 7:05 am 
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I just joined DW. I can't tell you how nice it is to see a thread with 186 posts regarding Ngondro/prostrations. It's heartwarming. Thanks everybody. I'll go through the entire thread at a later date. :namaste:

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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:04 pm 
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Anyone doing the 17th karmapa ngondro?


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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:27 am 
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TaTa wrote:
Anyone doing the 17th karmapa ngondro?

No. What is different about it? As in, if it is shorter, where can I find it?

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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:58 am 
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I' ve "dabbled" with it, and yes, it's much shorter.

I'm sure it's available out there, somewhere....it's a small booklet.

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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:27 am 
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conebeckham wrote:
I' ve "dabbled" with it, and yes, it's much shorter.

I'm sure it's available out there, somewhere....it's a small booklet.

Still 111,111 of each though, right?

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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:02 am 
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smcj wrote:
conebeckham wrote:
I' ve "dabbled" with it, and yes, it's much shorter.

I'm sure it's available out there, somewhere....it's a small booklet.

Still 111,111 of each though, right?
If it is 111,111 of each it doesn't make it any shorter, unless you mean like a shorter liturgy.

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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:06 pm 
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gregkavarnos wrote:
smcj wrote:
conebeckham wrote:
I' ve "dabbled" with it, and yes, it's much shorter.

I'm sure it's available out there, somewhere....it's a small booklet.

Still 111,111 of each though, right?
If it is 111,111 of each it doesn't make it any shorter, unless you mean like a shorter liturgy.


It's a shorter liturgy...As is the 'The Kusalis Nectar' by Jamgon Kongtrul Lodro Thaye, which is the Ngondro I done under Mingyur Rinpoche as part of two 3 year and a 5 year Mahamudra courses. Plus I only had to do 11k of each part as per MR's instruction, it was mainly geared toward pointing out/introduction, not number crunching :smile:

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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:25 pm 
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smcj wrote:
TaTa wrote:
Anyone doing the 17th karmapa ngondro?

No. What is different about it? As in, if it is shorter, where can I find it?


Yes. Shorter liturgy and we are encouraged to make 10k acumulations of each first and then complete the rest. I have recived the instrucctions and lung but havent started yet (still working on the 4 thoughts that turn the mind towards dharma. In my center are given in the context of a meditation program given by bokar rinpoche that takes at least half a year)


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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:04 am 
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Before you start each session of your NgonDro practice, you're supposed to contemplate 'The Four Thoughts', one of which is death.

The following is an excerpt from William Van Poyck, who wrote it on death row shortly before being executed:

Quote:
I've already thrown or given away 95% of my personal property, the stuff that for years seemed so important. All those great books I'll never get to read; reams and reams of legal work I've been dragging around, and studying, for two decades and which has suddenly lost its relevance.

My magazines and newspapers stack up unread; I have little appetite to waste valuable, irreplaceable hours reading up on current events. Does it really matter to me now what's happening in the Middle East, or on Wall Street, or how my Miami Dolphins are looking for the upcoming new season? What's the point? Ditto the TV; I'm uninterested in wasting time watching programs that now mean nothing in the grand scheme of things.

The other day I caught myself reaching for my daily vitamin. Really?, I wondered, as the absurdity hit me. Likewise, after 40 years of working out religiously, that's out the window now. Again, what's the point? Now, every decision about how to spend the next hour reminds me of Elaine in that "Seinfeld" episode where she had to constantly evaluate whether her boyfriends were really "sponge worthy."

Can you see how that frame of mind would make a session of NgonDro more potent?

The actual formal meditation of death has more elements than that, but he seemed to have covered parts of it pretty well. For instance I don't think the Seinfeld reference is necessary for a Buddhist to contemplate in particular. But then again, I've never seen that episode, so maybe it is!

Mods: that quote was from a CNN article, in case there's a copyright policy or issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:53 am 
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Location: Trāyastriṃśa. Just kidding. What a cool sanksrit word, huh?
smcj wrote:
Before you start each session of your NgonDro practice, you're supposed to contemplate 'The Four Thoughts', one of which is death.

The following is an excerpt from William Van Poyck, who wrote it on death row shortly before being executed:

Quote:
I've already thrown or given away 95% of my personal property, the stuff that for years seemed so important. All those great books I'll never get to read; reams and reams of legal work I've been dragging around, and studying, for two decades and which has suddenly lost its relevance.

My magazines and newspapers stack up unread; I have little appetite to waste valuable, irreplaceable hours reading up on current events. Does it really matter to me now what's happening in the Middle East, or on Wall Street, or how my Miami Dolphins are looking for the upcoming new season? What's the point? Ditto the TV; I'm uninterested in wasting time watching programs that now mean nothing in the grand scheme of things.

The other day I caught myself reaching for my daily vitamin. Really?, I wondered, as the absurdity hit me. Likewise, after 40 years of working out religiously, that's out the window now. Again, what's the point? Now, every decision about how to spend the next hour reminds me of Elaine in that "Seinfeld" episode where she had to constantly evaluate whether her boyfriends were really "sponge worthy."

Can you see how that frame of mind would make a session of NgonDro more potent?

The actual formal meditation of death has more elements than that, but he seemed to have covered parts of it pretty well. For instance I don't think the Seinfeld reference is necessary for a Buddhist to contemplate in particular. But then again, I've never seen that episode, so maybe it is!

Mods: that quote was from a CNN article, in case there's a copyright policy or issue.



:? WOW!
That was really profound!


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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:43 am 
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smcj wrote:
Before you start each session of your NgonDro practice, you're supposed to contemplate 'The Four Thoughts', one of which is death.

The following is an excerpt from William Van Poyck, who wrote it on death row shortly before being executed:

Quote:
I've already thrown or given away 95% of my personal property, the stuff that for years seemed so important. All those great books I'll never get to read; reams and reams of legal work I've been dragging around, and studying, for two decades and which has suddenly lost its relevance.

My magazines and newspapers stack up unread; I have little appetite to waste valuable, irreplaceable hours reading up on current events. Does it really matter to me now what's happening in the Middle East, or on Wall Street, or how my Miami Dolphins are looking for the upcoming new season? What's the point? Ditto the TV; I'm uninterested in wasting time watching programs that now mean nothing in the grand scheme of things.

The other day I caught myself reaching for my daily vitamin. Really?, I wondered, as the absurdity hit me. Likewise, after 40 years of working out religiously, that's out the window now. Again, what's the point? Now, every decision about how to spend the next hour reminds me of Elaine in that "Seinfeld" episode where she had to constantly evaluate whether her boyfriends were really "sponge worthy."

Can you see how that frame of mind would make a session of NgonDro more potent?

The actual formal meditation of death has more elements than that, but he seemed to have covered parts of it pretty well. For instance I don't think the Seinfeld reference is necessary for a Buddhist to contemplate in particular. But then again, I've never seen that episode, so maybe it is!

Mods: that quote was from a CNN article, in case there's a copyright policy or issue.


Amazing. I can only imagine the deep realization that milarepa had of the four thoughts to dedicate his life to dharma the way he did.

"It was fear of death what drive me to the mountains to meditate. Ive meditated on death till i realized the inmortal state of my mind."

PD: Love seinfeld


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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:35 am 
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Quote:
PD: Love Seinfeld

Ok, then what does "sponge worthy" mean in terms of Elaines boyfriends?

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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:45 pm 
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Location: Trāyastriṃśa. Just kidding. What a cool sanksrit word, huh?
She has a finite quantity of her favorite birth control (sponge) which has ceased to be manufactured.
All her future prospective boyfriends are measured against this impossible criteria of whether they are sponge-worthy or not.


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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:55 pm 
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Nilasarasvati wrote:
She has a finite quantity of her favorite birth control (sponge) which has ceased to be manufactured.
All her future prospective boyfriends are measured against this impossible criteria of whether they are sponge-worthy or not.

Ok, I get it, and I like it. Does seem like a good analogy for budgeting finite resources like time. I don't know if I will want to incorporate it into my formal contemplation of death, but it may end up like trying to not think about a pink elephant. The more you try not to, the worse it gets! :thinking:

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