Moderator: Tibetan Buddhism moderators
conebeckham wrote:To Yeshe, to Greg, and to all-
Regardless of how we feel about Tibetan "politics," or about the Dharma and money, or about any of this......the main thing is to recognize that the practice is the point.....the institutions and all the accompanying "samsaric" window-dressing are only for maintaining the transmission of something that cannot be stained. Maintaining a pure view, and pure devotion toward the lineage, is the thing. The so-called" reality of this situation will become apparent eventually, and those in the right will be seen in the light...those with less-then-pure motivations will come face-to-face with themselves, and their motives, in the bright light of day. No amount of internet activity, or reportage from any side, will change that in the end. No lawsuits, no political mechinations, no force......violence...... The inexorable truth of Karma cannot be changed merely by an op-ed piece in the news, or by wishing it were otherwise....or by any of these things.
In the meantime, may all beings have happiness and the causes of happiness. May all beings be free of suffering, and the causes of suffering.
gregkavarnos wrote:Dear Cone,
I dunno, but it seems to me that the stainless and incomparable lineage of the Karma Kagyu doesn't need bundles of foreign currency in order for the practices to survive, what it needs are devoted and unrelenting practitioners (and this is true of any lineage and tradition). If the practices bring the "desired" results then the institutions, and all the other leeches making a profit off of the practice, don't mean squat!
You see I believe that institutions are not the samsaric fronts of the practice, the practices don't need a front (or a back for that matter), institutions utilise these perfect practices as a front, as a means to their samsaric ends. The ascetics, the siddhas and all the other realised beings don't need a front for their practice. Anyway, no matter how many bundles of foreign currency any lineage or tradition (or their institutions) may accumulate this is no guarantee of: a) their survival and b) their pertinence.
There is a lesson here to be learnt for all traditions and lineages and it ain't "find a better stash for your cash"!
Well I'm off to do some prostrations, ie work on my spiritual front!
PS Let me draw your attention back to the Nandana Sutta that I posted, it seems you skipped that one and went straight to the Appaka Sutta.
The standard education for a Karma Kagyu monk is nine years of shedra followed by a three year three month retreat. Someone has to support the monks while they're being trained and educated. The support comes from donations from lay supporters and most of the money donated goes to support monks being trained. If there is going to be another generation of Tibetan Buddhist teachers they need to be trained now and that is why the generous support of donrs is needed.
Again people are confounding the practice with the institution. Maybe a short history lesson is needed?
The Kagyu, as an institution, really started to take form from Gampopa onwards. It was after Gampopa that Karmapa's, Sharmapa's, Situpa's and all manner of "funny-hat" wearing gentlemen popped up. Now, truth be said, originally the Karmapa's used to travel around with their retinue pitching tents along with the best of the Tibetan nomads, but after a while as the institutions started to soldify, well we know what the outcomes are dont we?
So, let's look back at the glorious lineage that gave birth to the Kagyu institution: Tilopa (originally a high paid brahmin priest to a king, left it all to pound sesame seeds for a living, and pounded Naropa into enlightenment), Naropa (abbot at Nalanda gives it all up to follow Tilopa and live in a retreat hut begging for alms), Saraha (abbot at Nalanda, got kicked out for "boozin 'n' floozin' "had a thing for sitting in jungles and eating turnip soup), Savaripa (a hunter living in a forest, given his sadhana by Avalokitesvara (well Saraha in disguise actually) himself), Nagarjuna (starts of as a brahmin, exiles himself after causing "a bit of bovver" goes to Nalanda and leaves to give live in caves and beg for food), Marpa? Milarepa?, etc... (I reccomend Masters of Mahamudra for a bit of background to the heavily stained Kagyu lineage)
So you see, and quite clearly, that the practices do not require institutions, the practices were doing just fine well before the institutions came into play. Now it is true that the institutions may act as physical supports for the practices BUT begging for ones food and "homelessness" were a couple of the main practices that the Buddha himself practiced and taught.
Lest we forget!
Jinzang wrote:The standard education for a Karma Kagyu monk is nine years of shedra followed by a three year three month retreat. Someone has to support the monks while they're being trained and educated. The support comes from donations from lay supporters and most of the money donated goes to support monks being trained. If there is going to be another generation of Tibetan Buddhist teachers they need to be trained now and that is why the generous support of donrs is needed.
So if you donate money to a power hungry dictator and they use the cash to purchase weapons and kill off all their rivals you will accumulate merit? Somehow I don't think so!Donating itself can accumulates merit, no matter the donate would become tons of cash or become some a luxury temple which some people think monks don't need. I will rejoice for other people's generosity.
gregkavarnos wrote:]So if you donate money to a power hungry dictator and they use the cash to purchase weapons and kill off all their rivals you will accumulate merit? Somehow I don't think so!
I sincerely hope you are being tongue in cheek otherwise I will have to seriously reccommend medication and counselling for paranoid disorders!mr. gordo wrote:Can you cite any references for your accusations or is this rumor based on some inference?