Drukpa Kunley reincarnation?

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Drukpa Kunley reincarnation?

Postby Destiny » Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:25 pm

Does someone know if there are recognized tulku of Drukpa Kunley?
I've heard that a couple of them have been recognized in Bhutan, but they did not live long life. Is this lineage continuing or not?
Thanks
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Re: Drukpa Kunley reincarnation?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:30 pm

Destiny wrote:Does someone know if there are recognized tulku of Drukpa Kunley?
I've heard that a couple of them have been recognized in Bhutan, but they did not live long life. Is this lineage continuing or not?
Thanks
If it is, then it would be recommended to wear a firmly locked chastity belt when in their presence! :smile:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Drukpa Kunley reincarnation?

Postby philji » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:52 pm

If they are found keep them away from your daughter and your whiskey stash!
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Re: Drukpa Kunley reincarnation?

Postby pemachophel » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:59 pm

When you go to Chimed Lhakhang in Wangdi Phodrang, the main Drukpa Kinley temple in Bhutan, besides being blessed with Drukpa Kinley's bow and arrow, they bop you on the head with a huge wooden phallus. Women come from all around to pray for a child. After the child is born, they bring the boy or girl back with various offerings in thanksgiving. There's a steady stream of such parents and their babies in arms, with Kinley (Kunlek) being one of the most popular male names in Bhutan. When traveling throughout Bhutan, it's not at all uncommon for your guide or some local to say, "This is where Drukpa Kinley threw a fire-brand at a bunch of demons," "This is the house one of Drukpa Kinley's consorts lived in," "This is where (fill in the blank)."

:namaste:
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Re: Drukpa Kunley reincarnation?

Postby aussiebloke » Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:18 am

In the long life prayer that Khyentse Chokyi Lodro wrote for an infant Chogyam Trungpa , after making reference to the previous Trungpas there is a verse referring to Drukpa Kunley. Fancy that !
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Re: Drukpa Kunley reincarnation?

Postby dzoki » Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:57 pm

philji wrote:If they are found keep them away from your daughter and your whiskey stash!


You guys know that most of those legends about Kunga Legpa (just like those about Akhu Tonpa) are nothing more than folk tales and rubbish?

Dugpa Kunleg was a serious scholar, yogi and holder of Kagyu lineage, not some lustful drunkard. Why one of the previous Je Khenpos of Bhutan composed such a spicy biography is a mystery to me. Of course Kunleg was not celibate (though during his youth he was a monk), but I am sure that most of his adventures described in this particular biography are made up exaggerations. Tsangnyon Heruka was the one who was really acting crazy, but since his biography has not been published in western langauges and Tibetans did not dare to circulate his stories in the same way that they did with Akhu Tonpa and Drugpa Kuleg, he remains rather unknown.
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Re: Drukpa Kunley reincarnation?

Postby dzoki » Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:01 pm

dzoki wrote:
philji wrote:If they are found keep them away from your daughter and your whiskey stash!


You guys know that most of those legends about Kunga Legpa (just like those about Akhu Tonpa) are nothing more than folk tales and rubbish, riht?

Dugpa Kunleg was a serious scholar, yogi and holder of Kagyu lineage, not some lustful drunkard. Why one of the previous Je Khenpos of Bhutan composed such a spicy biography is a mystery to me. Of course Kunleg was not celibate (though during his youth he was a monk), but I am sure that most of his adventures described in this particular biography are made up exaggerations. Tsangnyon Heruka was the one who was really acting crazy, but since his biography has not been published in western langauges and Tibetans did not dare to circulate his stories in the same way that they did with Akhu Tonpa and Drugpa Kuleg, he remains rather unknown.
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Re: Drukpa Kunley reincarnation?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:23 pm

dzoki wrote:You guys know that most of those legends about Kunga Legpa (just like those about Akhu Tonpa) are nothing more than folk tales and rubbish?
Yes, well, I imagine that not all of them are folk tales and rubbish. Either way, for me they are a source of respect for Kunga Legpa. Especially the story with Je Tsongkhapa!
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Drukpa Kunley reincarnation?

Postby drodul » Wed Jul 30, 2014 3:26 pm

What is the story with Je Tsongkhapa?
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Re: Drukpa Kunley reincarnation?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:36 pm

One day the Lama thought to himself that it was wrong to
have been so long in Lhasa without meeting a Buddha
Lama, and he determined to visit the Buddha
Tsongkhapa. 'It is said that Tsongkhapa is an incarnation of
the Bodhisattva of intelligence, Drukpa Kunley told
Buti. 'I must see if his mind is free of lust and anger.'

At the temple of Ramoche, he found the monks
engaged in metaphysical discussion, and thinking that
he should not lose this opportunity to teach them
he asked, 'What are you doing; oh monks?'
'We are cleansing our spiritual perspective of doubts and
disharmonies,' they told him. 'I know a little bit of
metaphysics myself,' said the Lama, grabbing a handful of
own flatulence and thrusting it under their noses. ;Which
came first, the air or the smell?' he demanded.

The monks became angry and would chase him
'We are not fitting butts for your humour!' they abused
him.
'Don't be so proud,' the Lama responded. 'Relax a little'
My ways and your ways are somewhat different. My ways
are civilized while your ways are full of lust and pride. Now
would you please announce me to the Bodhisattva of
Intelligence, Tsongkhapa.'
'Where is your formal offering?' they asked him.
'I didn't know I should need one,' the Lama
remonstrated. 'I'll bring one next time I come. I must see him
today.'
'Whoever heard of bringing an offering later!' the monks
scoffed.
'If it's absolutely necessary,' offered the Lama finally, 'I
have this fine pair of testicles given to me by my parents
will they do?'
The monks became angry again, and denying him entry
chased him away.
'When I have found an offering I will return to plague
these monks,' thought the Lama, and made his way back to
Lhasa.
...
Leaving the temple he set off to visit the Bodhisattva of
Intelligence, Tsongkhapa. As soon as he arrived at the
Ramoche Temple, the monks asked him what he was doing
there.
'I've come for audience with the Buddha Tsongkhapa,'
he told them.
'Do you still only have your balls as offerings?' jibed the
monks.
'No. This time I have gold to offer him,' responded the
Lama.
'Then you can gain audience immediately.'
'Yah! Yah!' laughed the Lama. 'If one has gold to offer,
the way is immediately opened.' And he thought to himself
that he should open these monks' eyes for them.
Ushered into the Presence, he proceeded to prostrate to
the box of gold intoning these words:

I bow to the Illuminator of our Darkness,
The Crown ofTibetan Sages, Tsongkhapa!
I bow to the inviolate Keeper of the Three Vows,
Bearer of the White Lotus who was prophesied by Atisha
I bow to teacher, debater and composer,
Bearer of the Sword on the Utpala Lotus!
I bow to the saviour of the poor, he who relieves poverty,
Possessor of divine charisma, covered by a web of gold!
I bow to the lover of wealth and comfort-
May this offering of gold bring joy to his heart!
I bow to him whose eyes turned from a poor and lowly votary
When I visited you last year with no offering!'

'O Lord of Beings, Kunga Legpa, you speak truthfully
and it is good to hear you,' Tsongkhapa said in reply. He
knotted a protective thread and gave it to the Lama, asking
him to accept it as a blessing. 'You need nothing more than
this,' he said. 'Wear it!'
The Lama accepted the token and withdrew. 'What shall I
do with this thread?' he thought to himself. 'It is not
comfortable to wear around my neck. I have no pocket
put it into, and I don't want to carry it in my hand. Better
tie it around my penis which is quite clean and has nothing'
to carry.' So he wrapped it around his penis and went to the
market.
'Look! Look!' he shouted. 'If you have fifty pieces of gold
you can gain audience with the Buddha Tsongkhapa
himself. He may even give you one of these!' And he waved his
member with the thread around it in the air.

THE DIVINE MADMAN: The Sublime Life and Songs of Drukpa Kunley, pp64-70
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Drukpa Kunley reincarnation?

Postby drodul » Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:20 am

You're right - that's inspirational! Thanks.
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Re: Drukpa Kunley reincarnation?

Postby dzoki » Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:44 pm

Sherab Dorje wrote:
dzoki wrote:You guys know that most of those legends about Kunga Legpa (just like those about Akhu Tonpa) are nothing more than folk tales and rubbish?
Yes, well, I imagine that not all of them are folk tales and rubbish. Either way, for me they are a source of respect for Kunga Legpa. Especially the story with Je Tsongkhapa!


Well yeah it is a nice story, except that Tsongkhapa passed away some 36 year before Kunleg was born. So this story lives on only in the imaginations of Tibetans :D
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Re: Drukpa Kunley reincarnation?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:17 pm

dzoki wrote:
Sherab Dorje wrote:
dzoki wrote:You guys know that most of those legends about Kunga Legpa (just like those about Akhu Tonpa) are nothing more than folk tales and rubbish?
Yes, well, I imagine that not all of them are folk tales and rubbish. Either way, for me they are a source of respect for Kunga Legpa. Especially the story with Je Tsongkhapa!


Well yeah it is a nice story, except that Tsongkhapa passed away some 36 year before Kunleg was born. So this story lives on only in the imaginations of Tibetans :D
They've got a good imagination though! You have to admit! :twothumbsup:

I guess though, that what it comes down to is if you want to sacrifice the didactic role of hagiographies at the altar of historicity or not. I for one think a tenuous balance between the two is necessary.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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