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Is Vajrayana/Mahayana the work of Mara? - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Is Vajrayana/Mahayana the work of Mara?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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tiltbillings
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Re: Is Vajrayana/Mahayana the work of Mara?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed May 02, 2012 8:59 pm


santa100
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Re: Is Vajrayana/Mahayana the work of Mara?

Postby santa100 » Wed May 02, 2012 9:45 pm

A joke would be much better than a reality for Buddhists because Mara was quite successful with His other campaigns over in Northern Ireland and the UK between Catholics and Protestants; or between Sunni and Shia Muslims in the Middle East. So far, he's only achieved limited success for having some Mahayanists and Theravadins engaging in wars of words..Thanks Buddha that no blood has been spilled in the name of Dhamma...yet...

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Is Vajrayana/Mahayana the work of Mara?

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed May 02, 2012 9:51 pm

The Ten armies of Mara:

1. Sensual pleasures
2. Discontent
3. Hunger and thirst
4. Craving
5. Sloth and torpor
6. Fear
7. Doubt
8. Conceit and ingratitude
9. Gain, renown, and honor, falsely received
10. Self-exaltation and disparaging others

(from Sutta Nipata 3.2)

Note: they are mental states, not some Satan-like person.
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David N. Snyder
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Re: Is Vajrayana/Mahayana the work of Mara?

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed May 02, 2012 9:56 pm

Mara's "daughters":

Lobha (greed)
Dosa (hatred)
Moha (delusion)

(mental states)
Samyutta Nikaya 1 Mara-samyutta
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mikenz66
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Re: Is Vajrayana/Mahayana the work of Mara?

Postby mikenz66 » Wed May 02, 2012 11:58 pm


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Dan74
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Re: Is Vajrayana/Mahayana the work of Mara?

Postby Dan74 » Thu May 03, 2012 12:32 am

I think sometimes Theravada people can get this impression that Vajrayana/Mahayana the work of Mara quite innocently, just like in Vajrayana/Mahayana people can get the impression that Theravada is the inferior Dhamma, incomplete and for those with little capacity.

What I recommend is that if people are truly interested in finding out, they do a little bit of research and also go to various centres, talk to the teachers and perhaps do some retreats. Of course you can just stick to your tradition and not worry about these things too. Above all it's good (for all of us) to develop our listening and be mindful of aversion and projection arising.
_/|\_

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tiltbillings
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Re: Is Vajrayana/Mahayana the work of Mara?

Postby tiltbillings » Thu May 03, 2012 2:00 am


santa100
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Re: Is Vajrayana/Mahayana the work of Mara?

Postby santa100 » Thu May 03, 2012 2:06 am

Actually, I think it's possible that Mara could be both mental defilements as pointed out by David AND some bad powerful dude ruling from his realm..I think the two aren't mutually exclusive. By the way, I remember some sutta did mention him as a being residing in one of the realms. If anyone could point it out, I'd greatly appreciate it..

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tiltbillings
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Re: Is Vajrayana/Mahayana the work of Mara?

Postby tiltbillings » Thu May 03, 2012 2:08 am


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bodom
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Re: Is Vajrayana/Mahayana the work of Mara?

Postby bodom » Thu May 03, 2012 2:12 am

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

santa100
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Re: Is Vajrayana/Mahayana the work of Mara?

Postby santa100 » Thu May 03, 2012 2:19 am

From the wiki page: (ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mara_(demon) )
"In traditional Buddhism four senses of the word "mara" are given:
1.Klesa-mara, or Mara as the embodiment of all unskillful emotions.
2.Mrtyu-mara, or Mara as death, in the sense of the ceaseless round of birth and death.
3.Skandha-mara, or Mara as metaphor for the entirety of conditioned existence.
4.Devaputra-mara, or Mara the son of a deva (god), that is, Mara as an objectively existent being rather than as a metaphor.

Early Buddhism acknowledged both a literal and "psychological" interpretation of Mara. Mara is described both as an entity having a literal existence, just as the various deities of the Vedic pantheon are shown existing around the Buddha, and also is described as a primarily psychological force - a metaphor for various processes of doubt and temptation that obstruct spiritual practice."

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tiltbillings
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Re: Is Vajrayana/Mahayana the work of Mara?

Postby tiltbillings » Thu May 03, 2012 2:39 am


plwk
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Re: Is Vajrayana/Mahayana the work of Mara?

Postby plwk » Thu May 03, 2012 3:00 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Is Vajrayana/Mahayana the work of Mara?

Postby tiltbillings » Thu May 03, 2012 4:10 am


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Dan74
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Re: Is Vajrayana/Mahayana the work of Mara?

Postby Dan74 » Thu May 03, 2012 5:40 am

_/|\_

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tiltbillings
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Re: Is Vajrayana/Mahayana the work of Mara?

Postby tiltbillings » Thu May 03, 2012 6:07 am


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Re: Is Vajrayana/Mahayana the work of Mara?

Postby daverupa » Thu May 03, 2012 11:09 am


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Dan74
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Re: Is Vajrayana/Mahayana the work of Mara?

Postby Dan74 » Thu May 03, 2012 11:16 am

I think the approach to the Bodhisattva Vows varies and at least in my experience, I was never pushed to formally take the Vows. I think you can practice to the level of your ability and according to your sincere motivation. If you are ready to take the Vows, you take the Vows. If you are not ready for this, you practice where you are anyway.

The ways the Vows are understood also varies. Some do not see them as a literal pledge to defer enlightenment but to recognize that there are no beings to be saved. To me, at the moment, it feels like we are like trees in a bushfire, concentrating on completely putting out just one tree is quite futile - it will catch back on fire, but controlling the fire around it may be more beneficial. I may be mistaken of course.

In any case, the Vows are a work in progress and for me they are an inspiration to practice hard and to serve others.
_/|\_

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Ron-The-Elder
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Re: Is Vajrayana/Mahayana the work of Mara?

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Thu May 03, 2012 11:38 am

What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

PTa
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Re: Is Vajrayana/Mahayana the work of Mara?

Postby PTa » Thu May 03, 2012 12:22 pm

"No matter how much we may speak in line with what we understand to be right in accordance with the Dhamma, if the citta that is acting isn't right, how can we be right?"
-Ajaan Mahã Boowa


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