Usuall gradual path in kagyu.

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Usuall gradual path in kagyu.

Postby TaTa » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:45 pm

Hi. Sorry about my ignorance. I dont know if this has been asked here before.

Whats the usual gradual path in the kagyu linage? Im talking in general terms. Just curious to know what ill be spending my time in my future years XD
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Re: Usuall gradual path in kagyu.

Postby conebeckham » Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:39 pm

I'm going to assume you're talking about "Karma Kagyu," though you may be talking about the Drikung, or even the Drukpa. Anyway, for Karma Kagyupas:

These days, it's often common to begin with Chenrezig practice, which is the main public practice at Karma Kagyu centers world-wide. Also, samatha and vipassana. Ngondro. Maybe Lojong Don Dun Ma. More Ngondro. Possibly some Green Tara practice. Maybe even some Mahakala/Protector practice at some point. Did I mention Ngondro? More ngondro.

In my experience these are the main focuses for beginners in the Karma Kagyu. Karmapa Khyenno.
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Re: Usuall gradual path in kagyu.

Postby TaTa » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:56 am

Thank you for you answer. Im about to start ngondro, so i guess that i have a few years of ngondro ahead XD. Thanks.
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Re: Usuall gradual path in kagyu.

Postby Konchog1 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:45 am

Also the Lam Rim of Jewel Ornament of Liberation. Shangpa Kagyupa don't do this though.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

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Re: Usuall gradual path in kagyu.

Postby plwk » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:05 pm

When I asked my Karma Kagyu frens and one Anila on what ngondro practices do they do, I was referred to Jamgon Kongtrul's 'The Torch of Certainty' and another 'Chariot for Travelling the Path to Freedom' by the 9th Karmapa Wangchuk Dorje. Yes, there was also mention on studying Gampopa's masterpiece, 'The Jewel Ornament of Liberation' and some of other works like the 'Four Dharmas of Gampopa', 'A Precious Garland of the Supreme Path' and so on. And practicing sadhanas like the Four Armed Chenrezig, Medicine Buddha, Arya Tara and Protector practice of Mahakala. Above all, the Lama's recommendations and advice.
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Re: Usuall gradual path in kagyu.

Postby conebeckham » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:15 pm

Most "Shangpa Kagyu" exist within the institution of the Karma Kagyu, I think......and we certainly are exposed to the Jewel Ornament.

There's also a Lam Rim written by Taranatha, which is harder to find in translation but also valuable to study. I'd say most non-Tibetan speaking "Shangpas" are more familiar with the Jewel Ornament than with Taranatha's Lam Rim. There's also Niguma's Lam Rim, but it's more "advanced."
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Re: Usuall gradual path in kagyu.

Postby Konchog1 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:28 pm

conebeckham wrote:Most "Shangpa Kagyu" exist within the institution of the Karma Kagyu, I think......and we certainly are exposed to the Jewel Ornament.

There's also a Lam Rim written by Taranatha, which is harder to find in translation but also valuable to study. I'd say most non-Tibetan speaking "Shangpas" are more familiar with the Jewel Ornament than with Taranatha's Lam Rim. There's also Niguma's Lam Rim, but it's more "advanced."
Oh, well okay. I assumed that since the Shangpa don't have Gampopa in their lineage, they wouldn't regularly study his text. Has Niguma's Lam Rim been translated?
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
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Re: Usuall gradual path in kagyu.

Postby conebeckham » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:42 pm

The fact is, most "Shangpa" practitioners are actually Karma Kagyupas who specialize in the practices of the Shangpa lineage. There are some Nyingmapas, and Sakyapas, and Gelukpas, who also practice Shangpa practices, of course, but the primary source of transmission still comes from the Karma Kagyu lamas who were Kalu Rinpoche's disciples.

http://www.amazon.com/Niguma-Lady-Illusion-Tsadra-Foundation/dp/1559393610#_ has a translation of the root text and the autocommentary of Niguma's Lam Rim.

And while I'm at it, here's Taranatha's Lam Rim.

http://www.exoticindiaart.com/book/details/essence-of-ambrosia-by-taranatha-guide-to-buddhist-contemplations-IDL137/
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