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Goldstein, Kornfield and One Buddhism - what's missing? - Dhamma Wheel

Goldstein, Kornfield and One Buddhism - what's missing?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Dan74
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Goldstein, Kornfield and One Buddhism - what's missing?

Postby Dan74 » Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:43 am

I've just started reading Joseph Goldstein's One Dharma (with Kornfield's A Path with Heart on the shelf). Ajahn Brahm has also made some comments regarding the core of all Buddhist traditions being the same.

Here these views are often met with vehement opposition. What I'd like to ask though is what of substance is missing from what these people teach? If you read any of these books or studied with these teachers, I'd really like to hear a substantiated critique.

I saw Kearney's critique of A Path with Heart but all I could glean from that was that he disagreed with Kornfield's contention that psychotherapy could be of use for some people before they start meditating. I think this is pretty self-evident but in any case it's not such a biggie. I read through those two threads on Ajahn Brahm and gathered that he seems to be over-exaggerating the importance of jhana and bliss while under-emphasizing insight, but I suspect this is more the "sales talk" and in actual instruction he gives a more balanced approach.

I know this is likely to stir up a hornet's nest, so I'd really like to ask that people substantiate their statements with quotes and references and refrain from statements like "Whatever it is, it's not Dhamma." If you believe so, please provide some serious backing for this. Otherwise this thread will just degenerate into polemics and won't be useful to anyone.

Personally I am happy with my practice and don't need some other take on the Dhamma/Dharma. My interest in this is to understand modern developments in Buddhism, in particular what is working and what isn't working so well, and why.

Thank you to anyone who can shed some light on this development!
_/|\_

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Re: Goldstein, Kornfield and One Buddhism - what's missing?

Postby Jhana4 » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:09 am

Last edited by Jhana4 on Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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daverupa
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Re: Goldstein, Kornfield and One Buddhism - what's missing?

Postby daverupa » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:20 am


nobody12345
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Re: Goldstein, Kornfield and One Buddhism - what's missing?

Postby nobody12345 » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:23 am


Jhana4
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Re: Goldstein, Kornfield and One Buddhism - what's missing?

Postby Jhana4 » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:25 am

Last edited by Jhana4 on Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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Ben
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Re: Goldstein, Kornfield and One Buddhism - what's missing?

Postby Ben » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:38 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Lazy_eye
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Re: Goldstein, Kornfield and One Buddhism - what's missing?

Postby Lazy_eye » Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:05 am

I can't vouch for Kornfield, but having listened to my fair share of Goldstein dhamma talks over the last year or so, I feel pretty confident in saying that he is teaching Buddhism. It's probably not fair to lump the two of them together since the approaches seem quite different.

Goldstein, as far as I'm able to tell, stays pretty close to orthodox Theravada and it's clear that he has great reverence for the dhamma as it has come down to us. The only real idiosyncrasy is that he has studied in more than one tradition and has ecumenical leanings.

But if ecumenical is synonymous with "not real dhamma" then we would also have to exclude such figures as Walpola Rahula.

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Kusala
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Re: Goldstein, Kornfield and One Buddhism - what's missing?

Postby Kusala » Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:44 am

Image

"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "

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Re: Goldstein, Kornfield and One Buddhism - what's missing?

Postby Goofaholix » Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:46 am


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Dan74
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Re: Goldstein, Kornfield and One Buddhism - what's missing?

Postby Dan74 » Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:47 am

Last edited by Dan74 on Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
_/|\_

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Dan74
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Re: Goldstein, Kornfield and One Buddhism - what's missing?

Postby Dan74 » Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:57 am

_/|\_

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Re: Goldstein, Kornfield and One Buddhism - what's missing?

Postby ground » Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:34 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Goldstein, Kornfield and One Buddhism - what's missing?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:54 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Goldstein, Kornfield and One Buddhism - what's missing?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:57 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Goldstein, Kornfield and One Buddhism - what's missing?

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:13 am

Greetings,

How do you decide what is sufficient and what is superfluous? It seems rather unanswerable to me.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Dan74
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Re: Goldstein, Kornfield and One Buddhism - what's missing?

Postby Dan74 » Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:44 am

_/|\_

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Prasadachitta
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Re: Goldstein, Kornfield and One Buddhism - what's missing?

Postby Prasadachitta » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:07 pm

"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

Jhana4
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Re: Goldstein, Kornfield and One Buddhism - what's missing?

Postby Jhana4 » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:10 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

Jhana4
Posts: 1309
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:20 pm
Location: U.S.A., Northeast

Re: Goldstein, Kornfield and One Buddhism - what's missing?

Postby Jhana4 » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:16 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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Lazy_eye
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Re: Goldstein, Kornfield and One Buddhism - what's missing?

Postby Lazy_eye » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:18 pm



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