My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby TenzinDorje » Thu May 17, 2012 10:54 pm

This situation will dry up. Be well.
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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby Kunzang » Mon May 21, 2012 8:27 am

TenzinDorje wrote:This situation will dry up.


I don't think it will anytime soon.

I was on twitter while some of this was happening and was following mujushinkyo and many others in this public drama. I left twitter for over a year; mainly due to this drama. I think mujushinkyo is actually downplaying the kind of excessive organized cyber-bullying that I saw happening to him on twitter. The massive organized way that KPC dealt with any criticism of them was frightening.

KPC has demonized mujushinkyo (Andrew Wilson) in a way that I feel for his safety.

It seems they know that he has posted here and have made even more disturbing (and extremely misleading) posts on their "protecting nyingma" blog.

As a Nyingmapa since 1987, I can say that we don't need the kind of "protection" that the hate-filled gossip blog "protecing nyingma" provides.

As an American Nyingmapa I say to KPC: What the hell do you think you're doing? You've always been considered odd (and worse) in American Nyingma circles and you have ever barely had any clout (despite your teacher's tulku recognition) and now you spend your time cultivating this grudge against someone who has nothing to do with you. I've watched this drama play out and I feel for this person's safety. Please stop bullying him.

KPC: You've truly brought shame to American Nyingma. All the good that you've done is completely overshadowed by this insane grudge.

For the love of peace: Let it go. Let this man live his life without the threat of a "cult" that has money to harass him through lawyers and followers that might possibly harm him because of "devotion".
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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby mujushinkyo » Tue May 22, 2012 3:40 am

Kunzang wrote:
TenzinDorje wrote:This situation will dry up.


I don't think it will anytime soon.

I was on twitter while some of this was happening and was following mujushinkyo and many others in this public drama. I left twitter for over a year; mainly due to this drama. I think mujushinkyo is actually downplaying the kind of excessive organized cyber-bullying that I saw happening to him on twitter. The massive organized way that KPC dealt with any criticism of them was frightening.

KPC has demonized mujushinkyo (Andrew Wilson) in a way that I feel for his safety.

It seems they know that he has posted here and have made even more disturbing (and extremely misleading) posts on their "protecting nyingma" blog.

As a Nyingmapa since 1987, I can say that we don't need the kind of "protection" that the hate-filled gossip blog "protecing nyingma" provides.

As an American Nyingmapa I say to KPC: What the hell do you think you're doing? You've always been considered odd (and worse) in American Nyingma circles and you have ever barely had any clout (despite your teacher's tulku recognition) and now you spend your time cultivating this grudge against someone who has nothing to do with you. I've watched this drama play out and I feel for this person's safety. Please stop bullying him.

KPC: You've truly brought shame to American Nyingma. All the good that you've done is completely overshadowed by this insane grudge.

For the love of peace: Let it go. Let this man live his life without the threat of a "cult" that has money to harass him through lawyers and followers that might possibly harm him because of "devotion".



Hey, thanks, man. I really appreciate it more than I can say. Love!!
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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby Andrew108 » Tue May 22, 2012 1:39 pm

Muyushinko - The more I have looked into this the more crazy it seems. If the Tibetan teachers can't clear this up then there is something wrong - at the level of heart. All they have to do is write a letter distancing themselves. I hope they do. You deserve some recompense - some correction.
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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby mujushinkyo » Tue May 22, 2012 9:34 pm

Andrew108 wrote:Muyushinko - The more I have looked into this the more crazy it seems. If the Tibetan teachers can't clear this up then there is something wrong - at the level of heart. All they have to do is write a letter distancing themselves. I hope they do. You deserve some recompense - some correction.


Hey, thanks, my friend. I appreciate it. Deeply.

Personally, I've vowed not to say anything else to or about this group of people, not even in the lighthearted form of jokes.
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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby kirtu » Tue May 22, 2012 10:00 pm

Kunzang wrote:As a Nyingmapa since 1987, I can say that we don't need the kind of "protection" that the hate-filled gossip blog "protecing nyingma" provides.

As an American Nyingmapa I say to KPC: What the hell do you think you're doing? You've always been considered odd (and worse) in American Nyingma circles and you have ever barely had any clout (despite your teacher's tulku recognition) and now you spend your time cultivating this grudge against someone who has nothing to do with you. I've watched this drama play out and I feel for this person's safety. Please stop bullying him.

KPC: You've truly brought shame to American Nyingma. All the good that you've done is completely overshadowed by this insane grudge.

For the love of peace: Let it go. Let this man live his life without the threat of a "cult" that has money to harass him through lawyers and followers that might possibly harm him because of "devotion".


As a fellow student of HHPR, I am greatly distressed by the actions of KPC in this whole debacle. Akhom Lhamo needs to lead them away from cultishness and tulku worship to genuine Mahayana and Vajrayana practice. They need to drop their fear and paranoia and super-idealization of Akhon Lhamo and focus on lovingkindness and compassion and the six perfections as a start and thus rescue themselves from this myopic inward focus.

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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby cloudburst » Wed May 23, 2012 3:36 pm

mujushinkyo wrote:Hello. I am not a Buddhist -- I do Zen -- yet some of you here may know me, or at least know about me. For the past two years I've been a target of a senseless online cyberstalking/harassment campaign by a Tulku named "Jetsunma Ahkon Lhamo" and her organization, the Kunzang Palyul Choling. I've written an "Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche" appealing for his help. I would deeply appreciate anyone's and everyone's help in getting this around. Arigato.

http://diamondsutrazen.blogspot.com/201 ... poche.html


it's a good letter.

To me this highlights the dangers of "recognizing " tulkus and "enthroning" them.
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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby Jikan » Wed May 23, 2012 5:14 pm

By one reckoning, there are 84,000 approaches to the Buddha Dharma: to the clear-eyed recognition of reality of one's situation. I think it's best not to insist that a fellow-traveler take the same gate as you or I do. Let 84,000 flowers bloom.

I very much doubt the abuse mujushinkyo is enduring is among those 84K. I hope it ceases, and right now. It's an embarrassment, a waste of time, and much worse.

I would like to encourage mujushinkyo to continue to use this board as a venue to describe his experiences with this group, perhaps in more detail, with the hope that some more sunlight will kill the fungus. Hang in there mate.
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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby mujushinkyo » Thu May 24, 2012 4:29 am

Jikan wrote:By one reckoning, there are 84,000 approaches to the Buddha Dharma: to the clear-eyed recognition of reality of one's situation. I think it's best not to insist that a fellow-traveler take the same gate as you or I do. Let 84,000 flowers bloom.

I very much doubt the abuse mujushinkyo is enduring is among those 84K. I hope it ceases, and right now. It's an embarrassment, a waste of time, and much worse.

I would like to encourage mujushinkyo to continue to use this board as a venue to describe his experiences with this group, perhaps in more detail, with the hope that some more sunlight will kill the fungus. Hang in there mate.


Hey, thank you very much.

It would be redundant for me to say anything else specifically about these people after the detailed blog posts I've made since last year, all still online.

What's more, I feel everybody now knows what's going on.

For me, there's no problem. I've handled an unusual situation as well as I could have and tried to learn from it as much as possible. Beyond that, I have to accept whatever karma brings.

For I do regard certain situations as ruled by karma or fate (in Japanese terms, some meetings in life are "en" -- fateful). I continue to be interested in why this person and this group chose me, but it's possible I will never understand.
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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby Nemo » Wed May 30, 2012 2:20 pm

So how's it going after the most recent barrage of character assassination on Protecting Nyingma? I must say the tweet(not yours), "Obese Tulkus make better lovers," had me in stitches entirely against my will.

This attack indicates that talking to those who Penor chose to look over his legacy was probably a good idea. It reeks of desperation on KPC's part. Strange that there is no apology. How can a center headed by a Tulku fight so dirty.

They suggest that both you and Cassidy are former alphabet soup killers who mean them harm. But if they knew that why on earth did they pick a fight with you two. I suppose they expected to intimidate you both into submission. It doesn't add up.

BTW here is how a Buddhist wins a fight, it seems all of you missed that talk on the first day;

:bow: Overcome by my own mental afflictions and lack of empathy I have acted against the Dharma. I offer all victory to you and drive all blame into my personal demon of self cherishing. This is all my fault. I am sorry.

This battle royale doesn't make much sense sometimes. How did all this start? Why are the KPC people so fixated on you two. Do they have a pathological need for drama? Wouldn't any sane person just ignore you. To go into hiding and hire high priced Washington law firms to harass men in geographic areas too remote to matter looks very neurotic and cowardly.
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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby Karma Dorje » Wed May 30, 2012 4:08 pm

As another student of HH Penor Rinpoche, I am deeply saddened by the lack of decorum and decency to say nothing of bodhicitta that we have seen from Ahkon Lhamo and her followers. I am absolutely mystified why there has been no public calling to account of this organization by the Palyul organization as a whole. While I do not blame them for the behaviour of Ahkon Lhamo, this was a real wake up call for me about the lack of transparency and accountability in Tibetan organizations in general. We should be held to higher standards of accountability as dharma comes to the West, lest new buddhists become discouraged and lose their faith. Her outrageous behaviour is not a new problem. She was already disregarding the advice of Penor Rinpoche back in the early 90s.

Zeoli is a reductio ad absurdum of the whole tulku project. Hopefully we can learn from this and at least introduce high standards of accountability for this 500 year old Tibetan innovation. When there are so many exemplary monks and nuns in the tradition, it's really a shame that all it takes is a few bad apples with a flair for self-promotion and a mean streak to damage the reputation of the lineage in the West.

I am sorry you have had to go through this, mujushinkyo. There isn't even a whiff of anything Buddhist about the vendetta these people have subjected you to. I dearly hope that this whole sad affair is addressed by the Heart Sons once and for all.

All the best,

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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby Malcolm » Wed May 30, 2012 4:16 pm

Karma Dorje wrote:I am absolutely mystified why there has been no public calling to account of this organization by the Palyul organization as a whole.


Because to acknowledge that there is a problem means that someone is responsible for the problem, and in this case it all leads back to Gyaltrul Rinpoche and Penor Rinpoche.

This is the just the standard Tibetan approach, if you pretend that something isn't a problem, it ceases to be one, theoretically.
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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby kirtu » Wed May 30, 2012 5:30 pm

Nemo wrote:Why are the KPC people so fixated on you two. Do they have a pathological need for drama?


Some, perhaps many, of the people at KPC are exemplary. However there is a defensive literalistic fanaticism with some people. These people tend to be tulku worshipers and are invested in form and not in realization. Possible deeper issues? I don;t know. I'm only now realizing that many westerners (maybe many people worldwide) are living through their emotions. Maybe that plays a role.

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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby Jikan » Wed May 30, 2012 5:34 pm

Support for the institution may factor in as well. KPC as a site (inclusive of the stupas and the bird sanctuary) is quite remarkable.
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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby kirtu » Wed May 30, 2012 5:49 pm

Karma Dorje wrote:Her outrageous behaviour is not a new problem. She was already disregarding the advice of Penor Rinpoche back in the early 90s.


Well some of them are defensive and fanatical. I had thought these were mostly people controlling access to Ahkon Lhamo. Now I don't know. At any rate, the expose in a book and a magazine were dealt with mostly to the satisfaction of her students.

Hopefully we can learn from this and at least introduce high standards of accountability for this 500 year old Tibetan innovation.


Yes.

When there are so many exemplary monks and nuns in the tradition,


She has exemplary students as well.

it's really a shame that all it takes is a few bad apples with a flair for self-promotion and a mean streak to damage the reputation of the lineage in the West.


Many of the people around her think that she is enlightened for starters. HHPR said that she wasn't. Just three years ago a kind of student of hers asked me rhetorically why such and such happened if she was enlightened. I just told him flat out that she isn't enlightened and he almost fell down after which he dismissed what I said. I then told him that at least at one point HHPR said that she hadn't attain the 1st bhumi. The conversation was dropped. But some (not all by any means) of her students are real fanatics and are invested in the drama and romance in the tulku ideal, perhaps because they come from a real literalist background. But another issue is another form of literalism: HHPR recognized her so ther recognition can't be wrong. Therefore she can do no wrong. It's sad to see. BTW, this is not a dig at the group. If I saw this with other organizations, and sometimes you do run into such people, I would be horrified as well.

Unfortunately it's as Malcolm said.

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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby kirtu » Wed May 30, 2012 5:50 pm

Jikan wrote:Support for the institution may factor in as well. KPC as a site (inclusive of the stupas and the bird sanctuary) is quite remarkable.


And their outreach to the Mongolians. Some of the things they have done are remarkable, just as you said. That makes the situation that much sadder.

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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby kirtu » Wed May 30, 2012 5:57 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Karma Dorje wrote:I am absolutely mystified why there has been no public calling to account of this organization by the Palyul organization as a whole.


Because to acknowledge that there is a problem means that someone is responsible for the problem, and in this case it all leads back to Gyaltrul Rinpoche and Penor Rinpoche.

This is the just the standard Tibetan approach, if you pretend that something isn't a problem, it ceases to be one, theoretically.


I do know a teacher who has told some of the students "no" on some issues when asked directly. The problem is that it was an Asian no, sort of how people used to say Japanese said no. This is a real problem for Americans since they believe that they are direct and at any rate are not used to no expressed very indirectly, without sarcasm and with pauses before response etc.

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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby Sheila » Thu May 31, 2012 6:10 am

Malcolm wrote:
Karma Dorje wrote:I am absolutely mystified why there has been no public calling to account of this organization by the Palyul organization as a whole.


Because to acknowledge that there is a problem means that someone is responsible for the problem, and in this case it all leads back to Gyaltrul Rinpoche and Penor Rinpoche.

This is the just the standard Tibetan approach, if you pretend that something isn't a problem, it ceases to be one, theoretically.


I guess I'd have to respectfully disagree here. A person's actions are their own. We could just as easily say her actions lead back to her parents, or the mayor of the town in which either/both the perpetrator and victim live, or her former therapist, etc.

At any given moment, the students of this or that teacher are misbehaving. Tibetan teachers such as Penor Rinpoche are not bonded bounty hunters, or licensed detectives, or elected political reps with the power to arrest or detain people. All they can do, and all they have ever done, is offer advice; one of the chief distinguishing characteristics of Buddhism (contrasted with, say, orthodox Catholicism) is personal responsibility as opposed to hierarchical hegemony.

It's utterly tragic if a disciple or students goes astray and wreaks havoc, to be sure. I completely side with a victim of any harassment. But it would be just as (probably more) effective to go after the perpetrator's family in search of some kind of justice--meaning, not very. Once someone's past 18 years of age, it's very hard to justify holding others accountable for their actions.

Organized community, however, can be extremely effective: can those concerned with this issue band together and out-Tweet the perpetrator? I say this realizing that it also may be just as, or more, effective to distance oneself/selves from the alleged offender altogether.

Also, I have to ask, is it really possible to know who's entirely at fault in either direction, given the lack of court case? Wouldn't it be better for both parties to just keep their distance before it gets to that point, and realize that there isn't any gain to either by maintaining a relationship?
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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby swampflower » Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:42 pm

Twitter, and even this site, seem to be odd formats for this strange conflict.
I am turned off more and more to "social" networks as a means of communication.
Perhaps because of the inherent anonymity that some use to disguise their identities and thus avoid responsibility for their actions, at least on some level.
Ignoring trolling may be a way to heal conflict. Even if a person feels they must call attention to this or that perceived wrong it may be a better course to keep silent on some levels and not broadcast dispersions through wide band social nets.
Who knows who may be listening :alien:
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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby mujushinkyo » Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:08 am

I appreciate everybody's attention to this -- everybody who has posted on this thread. Thank you.

I decided to write open letters to Karma Kuchen and to Gyatrul Rinpoche about it all because I, personally, ran out of ideas -- and I know of no other way to get these people to stop except by appealing publicly to those who are sane and want to practice some real waking up.

Just because I "disengage," which I have absolutely done, doesn't mean I'm exactly safe from a group of people who are obsessively vengeful and totally unrelenting.

At the beginning, when these people started stalking me on Twitter in 2009, their proof that I was definitely William Cassidy was that I was writing Zen aphorisms and not talking about their group at all. When I still ignored them, they went after my friends, those who RTd me, &c. After I addressed them in rather harsh terms and started talking about what fools they were for mistaking me for Cassidy, THAT became the definite proof that I was William Cassidy. ("See? He's responding angrily. That means he's Cassidy!") When I shut down my account, that proved I was William Cassidy ("he's on the run!"). And when I reopened my account under another name and they found me through my friends -- again, "proof" that I was William Cassidy ("he's back!").

And now I supposedly have a "relationship" with Cassidy and we fly helicopters around the cult's compound.

My many months of silence about the cult didn't buy me any consideration. It's bizarre to have a group of Buddhists pasting up tweets (from a page that has them blocked) that have nothing to do with them on their anonymous hate blog and saying: "See? This tweet is obviously a threat to our leader!"

What's more, some of the things they're saying about me are quite serious. I see nothing wrong with appealing to other Buddhists, sane Buddhists, for help.

This situation isn't just bad for me. It's worse for them. And it's very bad for the Buddha Dharma, if you care about that. I believe that a single word from Gyatrul Rinpoche could bring the whole thing to an abrupt halt. So why not try?

By the way, "obese tulkus make better lovers" is my line. But it could just as easily apply to Steven Seagal as to any other tulku.

I don't expect anybody to do anything to help me, but I thought I'd try it anyway. It can't hurt to have my story out in the open.

AUM SWASTI!
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