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A Question on Stream-Entry and Non-Literal Rebirth - Dhamma Wheel

A Question on Stream-Entry and Non-Literal Rebirth

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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marcussorno
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A Question on Stream-Entry and Non-Literal Rebirth

Postby marcussorno » Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:35 am

Hello everyone!
Please forgive me if this has come up before, but I have "attempted" to find this already mentioned and I am having some difficulty finding this info out. I personally have no issue with the concept of literal rebirth and accept it as part of the dhamma. That said, I have in the past been uncertain and from the reading I have done in this forum there are some who do not believe in the literal interpretation of the concept of rebirth.

I have no interest in getting into a debate as to whether or not one "should" believe in rebirth as I have had no problem finding threads on rebirth debates in abundance. My question is ASSUMING rebirth is NOT to be taken literally (again, for clarification this is not my view but I am curious for hypothetical reasons) how does this effect the concept of stream-enterer and once-returner? If non-literal rebirth is believed how does one explain these concepts? Not explaining why they are taught, but "explaining them in that context.

Again, I am not looking at attacking rebirth, I am genuinely curious how these things are viewed by the few who practice Theravada but don't take up literal rebirth. I also have no intention of baiting, I am not going to argue anything. Strictly looking for info and perspective. Not saying I won't participate, but not to argue literal vs. non-literal.

Thank you for all who participate.
:namaste:

BTW... if this thread is in the wrong place or if this has been addressed elsewhere, please move it or point me in the right direction and I humbly apologize.

*edited for clarification

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Re: A Question on Stream-Entry and Non-Literal Rebirth

Postby ground » Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:43 am


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Re: A Question on Stream-Entry and Non-Literal Rebirth

Postby Reductor » Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:47 am

For each level of awakening there is an appropriate level of release from one's own suffering in the hear and now, regardless whether there are more lives to come. If there is no rebirth, then each person who's suffering has reduced to a level which warrants the label 'stream-winner' (etc) experiences the fruits of that release before passing away.

The reduction of clinging and stress is a very important part of each level and would be retained even if rebirth were bunk.

Upon passing away there would be no further experience, so talk about 7 more lives, 1 more life in the sensuous realm, 1 more in the non-sensuous realm would all be defunct.

FYI: I don't think 'rebirth' or 'inter-life-continuation' is bunk.

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Re: A Question on Stream-Entry and Non-Literal Rebirth

Postby marcussorno » Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:57 am


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Re: A Question on Stream-Entry and Non-Literal Rebirth

Postby Ben » Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:59 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Re: A Question on Stream-Entry and Non-Literal Rebirth

Postby Reductor » Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:16 am


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Re: A Question on Stream-Entry and Non-Literal Rebirth

Postby marcussorno » Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:37 am


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Re: A Question on Stream-Entry and Non-Literal Rebirth

Postby ground » Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:43 am


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Re: A Question on Stream-Entry and Non-Literal Rebirth

Postby marcussorno » Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:55 am


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Re: A Question on Stream-Entry and Non-Literal Rebirth

Postby Reductor » Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:56 am


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Re: A Question on Stream-Entry and Non-Literal Rebirth

Postby ground » Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:59 am


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Re: A Question on Stream-Entry and Non-Literal Rebirth

Postby marcussorno » Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:04 am


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Re: A Question on Stream-Entry and Non-Literal Rebirth

Postby marcussorno » Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:05 am


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Re: A Question on Stream-Entry and Non-Literal Rebirth

Postby Kenshou » Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:07 am


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Re: A Question on Stream-Entry and Non-Literal Rebirth

Postby marcussorno » Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:11 am


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Re: A Question on Stream-Entry and Non-Literal Rebirth

Postby Reductor » Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:12 am


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Re: A Question on Stream-Entry and Non-Literal Rebirth

Postby marcussorno » Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:21 am


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Re: A Question on Stream-Entry and Non-Literal Rebirth

Postby Individual » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:23 pm

In my opinion, discussions like these on rebirth tend to fall under the four imponderables, with regard to inquiring into the specifics of kamma. They can also quickly become contentious.

In the absence of relating your question to a specific case ("With what action, is there what consequence?"), it's just mindless speculation with regard to a view of self.

Whether it's literal or metaphorical -- does it matter?

If rebirth is literal or not, how does that change your practice? How does that change how you see things or treat other people?

All it changes is how you frame the world.
The best things in life aren't things.



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