words to the west
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:47 am
http://www.american-buddha.com/words.west.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A Buddhist discussion forum on Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism
https://www.dharmawheel.net:443/
I would avoid making links to that site. The interview by Thinley Norbu is used to bring fear, doubt and uncertainty to practitioners on that site.
Interesting writing.
This may or may not be true depending on the tradition and locality.Another problem is that almost all Western teachers of Buddhism are either nihilists or eternalists, and not actual Buddhist lineage holders.
http://welcomingbuddhist.org/archives/124" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;heart wrote:[
Use this site instead http://welcomingbuddhist.org/archives/124" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
/magnus
The link I provided is the whole thing.Adamantine wrote:Does anyone know if it is possible to obtain a copy of the entire, unedited version of the Tricycle interview with TNR? Lama Tharchin sounds like he read or heard the entire thing, so it must be out there somewhere?
That is not just the entire thing as it appeared in the published Tricycle magazine? Because I own that copy and believe it is about the same length.. I meant the entire interview, that was never published... because Tricycle heavily edited it. The full answers that TNR gave, not just what made it into print...heart wrote:The link I provided is the whole thing.Adamantine wrote:Does anyone know if it is possible to obtain a copy of the entire, unedited version of the Tricycle interview with TNR? Lama Tharchin sounds like he read or heard the entire thing, so it must be out there somewhere?
/magnus
Having agreed to an interview, Rinpoche very generously and clearly answered Ms. Tworkov’s questions regarding a current movement among many Buddhist groups in America aimed at ‘diminishing the role of the teacher’ and reliance on the ‘collective wisdom of the sangha’. The interview was only partially published and heavily edited, demonstrating the weakness of our collective karma. I believe this caused confusion for many people. Through only having selected passages presented, many readers wrongly interpreted Rinpoche’s words and motivation, stirring strong reactions of judgment, confusion, and doubt.
Ah, I think no one have except maybe Tricycle. There was some conflict connected with this interview, can't remember what.Adamantine wrote:That is not just the entire thing as it appeared in the published Tricycle magazine? Because I own that copy and believe it is about the same length.. I meant the entire interview, that was never published... because Tricycle heavily edited it. The full answers that TNR gave, not just what made it into print...heart wrote:The link I provided is the whole thing.Adamantine wrote:Does anyone know if it is possible to obtain a copy of the entire, unedited version of the Tricycle interview with TNR? Lama Tharchin sounds like he read or heard the entire thing, so it must be out there somewhere?
/magnus
You can see the conflict from reading Lama Tharchin's letter, and knowing the editorial bias of Tricycle in general, which is fairly obvious if you've ever looked at a few!heart wrote:
Ah, I think no one have except maybe Tricycle. There was some conflict connected with this interview, can't remember what.
/magnus
Tricycle later published a revised and expanded version of the interview that they claim was not altered. The second publication centered around HH Thinley Norbu's most controversial statement from the originally published interview. There was some more light shed but in general the second publication supported the statement in the original that basically most Western teachers were either nihilists or eternalists.Adamantine wrote:You can see the conflict from reading Lama Tharchin's letter, and knowing the editorial bias of Tricycle in general, which is fairly obvious if you've ever looked at a few!heart wrote:
Ah, I think no one have except maybe Tricycle. There was some conflict connected with this interview, can't remember what.
/magnus
Sure, they are all in for the "American" Buddhism, or Protestant Buddhism as I call it. They might have edited it a lot at Tricycle but the wisdom of Thinley Norbu Rinpoche outshine their attempt completely which is probably why you can't find it at their website anymore.Adamantine wrote:You can see the conflict from reading Lama Tharchin's letter, and knowing the editorial bias of Tricycle in general, which is fairly obvious if you've ever looked at a few!heart wrote:
Ah, I think no one have except maybe Tricycle. There was some conflict connected with this interview, can't remember what.
/magnus
A bit of of an over-exaggeration I'd say.kirtu wrote:...but in general the second publication supported the statement in the original that basically most Western teachers were either nihilists or eternalists.
Kirt
I think the point is that without realization you will always tend to fall towards nihilism or eternalism.Namdrol wrote:A bit of of an over-exaggeration I'd say.kirtu wrote:...but in general the second publication supported the statement in the original that basically most Western teachers were either nihilists or eternalists.
Kirt
N
heart wrote:I think the point is that without realization you will always tend to fall towards nihilism or eternalism.Namdrol wrote:A bit of of an over-exaggeration I'd say.kirtu wrote:...but in general the second publication supported the statement in the original that basically most Western teachers were either nihilists or eternalists.
Kirt
N
/magnus
Namdrol wrote:heart wrote:I think the point is that without realization you will always tend to fall towards nihilism or eternalism.Namdrol wrote:
A bit of of an over-exaggeration I'd say.
N
/magnus
Then the comment should have been extended to cover almost all Buddhist teachers.
I am not a realized person, but I am neither and eternalist nor a nihilist.Adamantine wrote:
but hardly an over-exaggeration. . . at least, from my POV.
There was actually a mini-scandal over the way the editor, Helen Tworkov, had manipulated Norbu Rinpoche's responses in the published copy of the interview to reflect badly on him and on Vajrayana in general. Tricycle lost quite a few subscribers, including myself, over that little lapse of judgement and I believe the magazine printed a carefully worded not-quite-apology afterward.Adamantine wrote:You can see the conflict from reading Lama Tharchin's letter, and knowing the editorial bias of Tricycle in general, which is fairly obvious if you've ever looked at a few!heart wrote:
Ah, I think no one have except maybe Tricycle. There was some conflict connected with this interview, can't remember what.
/magnus
Yup -- you see, Tworkov, so I understand, was a disgrunteled ex-student of TNR's who had defected to Zen.Silent Bob wrote:There was actually a mini-scandal over the way the editor, Helen Tworkov, had manipulated Norbu Rinpoche's responses in the published copy of the interview to reflect badly on him and on Vajrayana in general. Tricycle lost quite a few subscribers, including myself, over that little lapse of judgement and I believe the magazine printed a carefully worded not-quite-apology afterward.Adamantine wrote:You can see the conflict from reading Lama Tharchin's letter, and knowing the editorial bias of Tricycle in general, which is fairly obvious if you've ever looked at a few!heart wrote:
Ah, I think no one have except maybe Tricycle. There was some conflict connected with this interview, can't remember what.
/magnus
Chris