Smoking tobacco

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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby Adamantine » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:46 am

rai wrote:Hi all,

What is Tibetan Buddhism approach towards smoking tobacco. Please write whatever you've heard or read. I am struggling with casual smoking and need some good motivation to give up completely. I've read HH Dudjom Rinpoche' teachings on smoking tobacco but 1) I saw it on Aro website and i am not sure is it authentic or not and 2) the description of the plant are more like a Opium not tobacco, maybe someone read it in Tibetan and could confirm.

Thanks,

Rai


Hi Rai,

How is the quitting going? I guarantee you that what you read from Dudjom Rinpoche is 100% authentic.

There is a long story specifically regarding Dudjom Lingpa and smoking, I will try to tell you when I have more time. In short, it is pure poison for practice, blocks the channels, including central channel... and renders phowa ineffective, along with so many other ill-effects. If you haven't quit yet, do it right away.
I used to smoke socially, until I received direct teachings about the obstacles it creates for practice. If you can't quit on your own, use acupuncture and hypnosis together. :namaste:
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby rai » Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:51 pm

hi Adamantine,

i still do smoke few cigarettes a week!

somehow i am not struggling when there is no conditions to smoke but just because someone who lives with me smoke then i join socially sometimes =)

thank you! looking forward to hear some more about Dudjom Lingpa and smoking!
Disdaining the lower and unable to grasp the higher,
talking of emptiness, such a person will neglect cause and effect,
mouthing on about the view while in a state of self-deception.
It would be better to concentrate on the gradual path.

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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby JinpaRangdrol » Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:55 pm

Adamantine wrote:
rai wrote:Hi all,

What is Tibetan Buddhism approach towards smoking tobacco. Please write whatever you've heard or read. I am struggling with casual smoking and need some good motivation to give up completely. I've read HH Dudjom Rinpoche' teachings on smoking tobacco but 1) I saw it on Aro website and i am not sure is it authentic or not and 2) the description of the plant are more like a Opium not tobacco, maybe someone read it in Tibetan and could confirm.

Thanks,

Rai


Hi Rai,

How is the quitting going? I guarantee you that what you read from Dudjom Rinpoche is 100% authentic.

There is a long story specifically regarding Dudjom Lingpa and smoking, I will try to tell you when I have more time. In short, it is pure poison for practice, blocks the channels, including central channel... and renders phowa ineffective, along with so many other ill-effects. If you haven't quit yet, do it right away.
I used to smoke socially, until I received direct teachings about the obstacles it creates for practice. If you can't quit on your own, use acupuncture and hypnosis together. :namaste:


Could you elaborate on smoking rendering phowa ineffective? Is this primarily attributed to tobacco, or all smoke?

One time, when somebody was discussing trungpa with Chatral Rinpoche, they mentioned that he smoked cigarettes. Chatral Rinpoche's response was, "oh, he is finished!" lol. I'm sure the other hard drugs and alcoholism didn't help, either...
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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby JinpaRangdrol » Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:02 pm

Also, I think it should be mentioned that a very prominent (relatively) western practitioner that I was very close to was a cigarette smoker. He died of a heart attack a couple of years ago (probably related to smoking), but his enlightenment in the Bardo of Dharmata was attested by multiple Rinpoches. There were also incredible signs surrounding his death. He was an accomplished Tögal practitioner, but had smoked long before he started practicing Buddhism...
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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby Malcolm » Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:15 pm

JinpaRangdrol wrote:Also, I think it should be mentioned that a very prominent (relatively) western practitioner that I was very close to was a cigarette smoker. He died of a heart attack a couple of years ago (probably related to smoking), but his enlightenment in the Bardo of Dharmata was attested by multiple Rinpoches. There were also incredible signs surrounding his death. He was an accomplished Tögal practitioner, but had smoked long before he started practicing Buddhism...



Tögal does not work with relative channels. What is being discussed is relative channels.

Your friend is fortunate to have received tögal instruction, and unfortunate to have had an addiction that prevented his complete realization in this life.

N
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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby JinpaRangdrol » Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:32 pm

Namdrol wrote:
JinpaRangdrol wrote:Also, I think it should be mentioned that a very prominent (relatively) western practitioner that I was very close to was a cigarette smoker. He died of a heart attack a couple of years ago (probably related to smoking), but his enlightenment in the Bardo of Dharmata was attested by multiple Rinpoches. There were also incredible signs surrounding his death. He was an accomplished Tögal practitioner, but had smoked long before he started practicing Buddhism...



Tögal does not work with relative channels. What is being discussed is relative channels.

Your friend is fortunate to have received tögal instruction, and unfortunate to have had an addiction that prevented his complete realization in this life.

N


Ah. Great point. Thanks. I definitely would never use his example as a justification for tobacco smoking, as I think it's a disgusting and obviously detrimental habit in the first place. I was always skeptical of the tobacco teachings that state that any being that comes into contact with tobacco smoke will take rebirth in the hell realms... But I suppose mastery of Tögal would supersede any karmic defilements. There was also a story that I remember from the life of Do Khyentse Yeshe Dorje. When he was still a teenager, he received a couple of empowerments from Ranyak Gyalse, a wild yogi. He gave him a Hayagriva empowerment by shooting him in the heart with a gun, but the bullet transformed into an image of Hayagriva and Do Khyentse received the empowerment. He then requested a Long-Life empowerment, which Gyalse transmitted by taking some ash from his tobacco pipe and mixing it with spit. This transformed into nectar, and was the means by which the empowerment was given. Granted, this would be a great example of a great Mahasiddha transforming poison into nectar, or simply a Dzogchenpa bypassing all notions of purity or impurity, but I found it to be interesting nonetheless.
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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby Nemo » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:37 pm

You know your a Tibetan Buddhist when you don't mind if your neighbors smoke pot, but when a whiff of tobacco smoke comes across your deck you close all the windows and go inside.
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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby Malcolm » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:39 pm

Nemo wrote:You know your a Tibetan Buddhist when you don't mind if your neighbors smoke pot, but when a whiff of tobacco smoke comes across your deck you close all the windows and go inside.



Very true. :woohoo:
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http://atikosha.org
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there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby Virgo » Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:31 am

Nemo wrote:You know your a Tibetan Buddhist when you don't mind if your neighbors smoke pot, but when a whiff of tobacco smoke comes across your deck you close all the windows and go inside.

LOL

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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby Virgo » Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:25 am

Seriously, tobacco is evil and very powerful. It has the power the wreck you-- block your channels, cause the five poisons to increase, etc.

Highly unprofitable.

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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby catmoon » Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:31 am

Seriously, there is more BS peddled as Buddhism on the topic of smoking than just about anything else, except possibly vegetarianism. I think its a very simple case of people taking their personal aversions, dressing them up in Buddhist clothes and then proceeding to beat people over the head with them, no doubt much to the delight of the beater's ego.
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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby Adamantine » Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:58 pm

catmoon wrote:Seriously, there is more BS peddled as Buddhism on the topic of smoking than just about anything else, except possibly vegetarianism. I think its a very simple case of people taking their personal aversions, dressing them up in Buddhist clothes and then proceeding to beat people over the head with them, no doubt much to the delight of the beater's ego.


That's simply not the case. I can attest to it both from my experience of years as a smoker, how it affected me, and the wisdom of my teachers, their direct instruction, and the miraculous interventions they manifested despite me never revealing this habit to them..
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Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby Virgo » Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:18 pm

catmoon wrote:Seriously, there is more BS peddled as Buddhism on the topic of smoking than just about anything else, except possibly vegetarianism. I think its a very simple case of people taking their personal aversions, dressing them up in Buddhist clothes and then proceeding to beat people over the head with them, no doubt much to the delight of the beater's ego.

Terma

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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby catmoon » Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:17 am

Virgo wrote:
catmoon wrote:Seriously, there is more BS peddled as Buddhism on the topic of smoking than just about anything else, except possibly vegetarianism. I think its a very simple case of people taking their personal aversions, dressing them up in Buddhist clothes and then proceeding to beat people over the head with them, no doubt much to the delight of the beater's ego.

Terma

Kevin


Terma? Ah yes i have heard this argument before, but usually in the form "It's in the Bible, I believe it, that settles it."
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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby JinpaRangdrol » Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:24 am

catmoon wrote:
Virgo wrote:
catmoon wrote:Seriously, there is more BS peddled as Buddhism on the topic of smoking than just about anything else, except possibly vegetarianism. I think its a very simple case of people taking their personal aversions, dressing them up in Buddhist clothes and then proceeding to beat people over the head with them, no doubt much to the delight of the beater's ego.

Terma

Kevin


Terma? Ah yes i have heard this argument before, but usually in the form "It's in the Bible, I believe it, that settles it."


Sounds more like somebody with an addiction that they know is dangerous and detrimental to their practice trying to justify their habit and avoid quitting...
Also, I'd love to hear your superior Buddhist justification for eating meat. And since you're so skeptical of anything you can't justify with your daily experience, then i think the rTsal argument would be a cop-out...
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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby catmoon » Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:50 am

JinpaRangdrol wrote:Sounds more like somebody with an addiction that they know is dangerous and detrimental to their practice trying to justify their habit and avoid quitting...
Also, I'd love to hear your superior Buddhist justification for eating meat. And since you're so skeptical of anything you can't justify with your daily experience, then i think the rTsal argument would be a cop-out...


Yup it's an addiction, yup it's dangerous. So what? I don't take it upon myself to criticize every bad driver, rock climber or skydiver I meet. I'm not going to go into my views on vegetarianism, since this is not the thread for it, and I'm tired of going over the same ground again and again. I think if you search the vegetarian debate threads you'll find lots of my views there, if you really want them. Should be some juicy stuff in there, I used to write wilder stuff than I do now. Long story short, views differ, they always will.

If there have been detrimental effects on my practice, I haven't found any. As a matter of fact the amount of harassment any smoker has to endure gives many opportunities to practice patience.
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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby Josef » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:01 am

Smoking stinks.
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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby catmoon » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:07 am

Nangwa wrote:Smoking stinks.


Thank you for your opinion.
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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby Josef » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:12 am

catmoon wrote:
Nangwa wrote:Smoking stinks.


Thank you for your opinion.

You got it.
Do you find that smoking does not stink?
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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby catmoon » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:14 am

Nangwa wrote:
catmoon wrote:
Nangwa wrote:Smoking stinks.


Thank you for your opinion.

You got it.
Do you find that smoking does not stink?


No, I do not find that smoking stinks. To me, it smells like a campfire, or a pile of autumn leaves burning. Predictable, isn't it?
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