Have you heard about Jatson Rinpoche ?

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Have you heard about Jatson Rinpoche ?

Postby Sönam » Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:48 pm

Dashang Kagyu Ling, in Bourgogne France, is programming a teaching of Jatson Rinpoché in july on "tchetsun Nyingthig" http://www.mille-bouddhas.com/article.php3?id_article=858. Does anyone knows about him. I try to investigate, and I did'nt found anything about that "Rinpoché" ... more, Dashang Kagyu Ling says that he is an emanation of one of the 25th disciple of Guru Rinpoche ... but if one goes on http://www.palyul.org/eng_biotulku_dhrakmar.htm one can read that there is a Terton Rigzin Jatson, but in relation with Pema Jigme Wangdrag Thutob Gonpo.

Thank you for your help
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Re: Have you heard about Jatson Rinpoche ?

Postby narraboth » Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:23 pm

http://www.hwayue.org.tw/act/26th_Kagyu ... 090111.htm
It seems that he is the one who offer madala in the picture in 26th Kagyu Monlam?
Karmapa mentioned: 'Thanks to donors leaded by Jatson Rinpoche...'

That's all I can find for now :)
you can contact Kagyu masters see if they know him.

Sönam wrote:Dashang Kagyu Ling, in Bourgogne France, is programming a teaching of Jatson Rinpoché in july on "tchetsun Nyingthig" http://www.mille-bouddhas.com/article.php3?id_article=858. Does anyone knows about him. I try to investigate, and I did'nt found anything about that "Rinpoché" ... more, Dashang Kagyu Ling says that he is an emanation of one of the 25th disciple of Guru Rinpoche ... but if one goes on http://www.palyul.org/eng_biotulku_dhrakmar.htm one can read that there is a Terton Rigzin Jatson, but in relation with Pema Jigme Wangdrag Thutob Gonpo.

Thank you for your help
Sönam
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Re: Have you heard about Jatson Rinpoche ?

Postby Sönam » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:34 pm

merci narraboth ...

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Re: Have you heard about Jatson Rinpoche ?

Postby Sönam » Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:25 am

It seems no one have heard about him. Another transcription of his name is Rigzin Jatseun Rinpoche.
The two centers Mille Bouddhas in Bourgogne and Huy in Belgium have no more informations regarding him ... it is not usual not to know the lineage and others on any Rinpoché ... and I know that in term of organisation, some centers do not give, sometime, enough time (maybe they don't have) to validate who is who.

It would be harmful for the Dharma to have a (another) problem regarding unknown masters giving teaching in France ...

Sönam
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Re: Have you heard about Jatson Rinpoche ?

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:09 pm

Sorry, never heard of him either, but if you're able to find out he's legit, receiving Khyentse Wangpo's Chetsun Nyingthig would be an incredible opportunity.
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Re: Have you heard about Jatson Rinpoche ?

Postby Sönam » Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:00 pm

still no answers, from no one ... no one seems to know him. Waiting for the answer of His Holiness's Office.

It could be an opportunity ... if the transmission lineage has been respected. And I won't take such a risk !

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Re: Have you heard about Jatson Rinpoche ?

Postby Adamantine » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:46 pm

Sönam wrote:still no answers, from no one ... no one seems to know him. Waiting for the answer of His Holiness's Office.

It could be an opportunity ... if the transmission lineage has been respected. And I won't take such a risk !

Sönam



Sonam, there are some great Nyingma lineage teachers right there in France, I think they could be asked about this Lama because if he is authentic I think they would know of him. For instance ask Lama Tenzin Samphel or Tulku Pema Wangyal, if they didn't know anything about him I think it would be unusual if he is a reincarnation of a Terton. I think this would be a better bet than asking the Karmapa's office at this point, -especially since they seem quite preoccupied at the moment.
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Re: Have you heard about Jatson Rinpoche ?

Postby narraboth » Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:12 pm

If the person who holded madala in Kagyu Monlam 2007-8 photos was him, I don't think he would be a fake lama.

OK, I personally think the question is: whom you want to recieve this one of the highest Dzogchen empowerment from?

Chetsen Nyingthig is in Rinchen Terdzo, so I think he should have the lineage; and if he is a qualified lama, he should know what he is doing. So I guess the higher chance is that it would be a qualified empowerment.

However, as said this empowerment is very high, supposed to be very secret, and the students need to have strong faith to him. Although normally we say root guru means those who indicated rigpa for us, Jigmelingpa said those who give you Dzogchen empowerment, transmission and instruction should be considered as root guru too.

For this reason, if you decide to get this from him, you will have a very strong link with him, stronger than other empowerments you have got. So do try very hard to ask, make phone call to centers in europe, UK, india or even taiwan, ask all Kagyu lama (because I guess he is mainly a Kagyupa, probably not many Nyingmapa know him) you can access to confirm. Don't get the empowerment blindly. If you got a satisfying answer, take him as your very precious guru.

Ofcourse, some people do take Dzogchen empowerment as 'just an empowerment'. But I am not sure how much more benefits they can get with this kind of attitude.
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Re: Have you heard about Jatson Rinpoche ?

Postby Adamantine » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:15 am

narraboth wrote:ask all Kagyu lama (because I guess he is mainly a Kagyupa, probably not many Nyingmapa know him)



If he is an emanation of one of the 25 heart disciples of Guru Rinpoche and also the reincarnation of a Terton whose Terma is collected in the Rinchen Terzod then Nyingma Lama's should know who he is.
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Re: Have you heard about Jatson Rinpoche ?

Postby Sönam » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:05 pm

Thank you both of you, I will follow the Nyingma approach proposed by Adamantine.

Regarding "he should be a great master for it is a very secret teaching/empowerment", that is not enough, last year in France came up a similar "Rinpoché". At the last minute the teacher have been replaced by Namkha Rinpoche.

Sönam
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Re: Have you heard about Jatson Rinpoche ?

Postby Adamantine » Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:09 am

Sönam wrote:Thank you both of you, I will follow the Nyingma approach proposed by Adamantine.

Regarding "he should be a great master for it is a very secret teaching/empowerment", that is not enough, last year in France came up a similar "Rinpoché". At the last minute the teacher have been replaced by Namkha Rinpoche.

Sönam


Why was he replaced?
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Re: Have you heard about Jatson Rinpoche ?

Postby Sönam » Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:31 pm

Because he was not what he pretended to be ...
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
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Re: Have you heard about Jatson Rinpoche ?

Postby Heruka » Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:52 pm

What did he pretend to be?
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Re: Have you heard about Jatson Rinpoche ?

Postby narraboth » Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:01 pm

Adamantine wrote:
narraboth wrote:ask all Kagyu lama (because I guess he is mainly a Kagyupa, probably not many Nyingmapa know him)



If he is an emanation of one of the 25 heart disciples of Guru Rinpoche and also the reincarnation of a Terton whose Terma is collected in the Rinchen Terzod then Nyingma Lama's should know who he is.


oh, i am not sure about that. that's not the way how Tibetan recognising system works. To recognise someone as a terton's emenation, the lineage leader doesn't need to inform Nyingma's leader. It's basically every lineage's own busniess.

If the recognition was from Karmapa or other kagyu leaders given to an originally Kagyu monk, it's still a real recognition, but probably not every Nyingmapa will know. It's actually very common in Tibetan Buddhism. There is a Rinpoche newly recognised by Garje Khamtrul Rinpoche, then confirmed by HHDL, the lama/rinpoche is belonged to drukpa Kagyu lineage so in the end it's Gyalwang Drukpa enthroned him, I don't think any Nyingma monastery was informed so if you ask someone in Palyul monastery I doubt they will know.

Anyway, I think he is mainly a Kagyupa, otherwise he won't be in Kagyu Monlam, he will be in Nyingma Monlam.
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Re: Have you heard about Jatson Rinpoche ?

Postby narraboth » Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:11 pm

Sönam wrote:Thank you both of you, I will follow the Nyingma approach proposed by Adamantine.

Regarding "he should be a great master for it is a very secret teaching/empowerment", that is not enough, last year in France came up a similar "Rinpoché". At the last minute the teacher have been replaced by Namkha Rinpoche.

Sönam


Namkha Rinpoche... anyone knows much about him?
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Re: Have you heard about Jatson Rinpoche ?

Postby heart » Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:37 pm

narraboth wrote:
Sönam wrote:Thank you both of you, I will follow the Nyingma approach proposed by Adamantine.

Regarding "he should be a great master for it is a very secret teaching/empowerment", that is not enough, last year in France came up a similar "Rinpoché". At the last minute the teacher have been replaced by Namkha Rinpoche.

Sönam


Namkha Rinpoche... anyone knows much about him?


He is the guy that recognized the American that calls himself "Traktrung Rinpoche" long time ago, afterward they had a falling out. This isn't the greatest story I heard about a Rinpoche but I have an other problem with this Namkha Rinpoche and that is that he support the false Chokling tulku that calls himself "Chokling Jigme Palden Rinpoche". "False" might sound harsh but this is what the lineage holders say.

/magnus
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Re: Have you heard about Jatson Rinpoche ?

Postby Adamantine » Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:33 pm

heart wrote:
narraboth wrote:
Sönam wrote:Thank you both of you, I will follow the Nyingma approach proposed by Adamantine.

Regarding "he should be a great master for it is a very secret teaching/empowerment", that is not enough, last year in France came up a similar "Rinpoché". At the last minute the teacher have been replaced by Namkha Rinpoche.

Sönam


Namkha Rinpoche... anyone knows much about him?


He is the guy that recognized the American that calls himself "Traktrung Rinpoche" long time ago, afterward they had a falling out. This isn't the greatest story I heard about a Rinpoche but I have an other problem with this Namkha Rinpoche and that is that he support the false Chokling tulku that calls himself "Chokling Jigme Palden Rinpoche". "False" might sound harsh but this is what the lineage holders say.

/magnus


Really? I never heard of CJPR, but then Chokling is not my practice lineage.. Did a quick google and rigpa wiki says "Rinpoche’s supreme root teachers, H.H. 16th Gyalwa Karmapa Rangjung Rigpé Dorje, H.H. Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche (Vajradhara in person), H.H. the 2nd Adzom Drugpa Rinpoche/Thubten Pema Trinley (1921-2001) and H.H. Taklung Tsetrul Rinpoche, Tenzin Gyaltsen, head of the Taklung lineage, all recognized in their same supreme wisdom that he is the incarnation of Chokgyur Lingpa."

.
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Re: Have you heard about Jatson Rinpoche ?

Postby heart » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:12 pm

Adamantine wrote:
Really? I never heard of CJPR, but then Chokling is not my practice lineage.. Did a quick google and rigpa wiki says "Rinpoche’s supreme root teachers, H.H. 16th Gyalwa Karmapa Rangjung Rigpé Dorje, H.H. Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche (Vajradhara in person), H.H. the 2nd Adzom Drugpa Rinpoche/Thubten Pema Trinley (1921-2001) and H.H. Taklung Tsetrul Rinpoche, Tenzin Gyaltsen, head of the Taklung lineage, all recognized in their same supreme wisdom that he is the incarnation of Chokgyur Lingpa."

.


Yes, really. Of course I have no capacity to know these things but this is what I been told.

/magnus
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Re: Have you heard about Jatson Rinpoche ?

Postby Adamantine » Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:29 am

heart wrote:
Adamantine wrote:
Really? I never heard of CJPR, but then Chokling is not my practice lineage.. Did a quick google and rigpa wiki says "Rinpoche’s supreme root teachers, H.H. 16th Gyalwa Karmapa Rangjung Rigpé Dorje, H.H. Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche (Vajradhara in person), H.H. the 2nd Adzom Drugpa Rinpoche/Thubten Pema Trinley (1921-2001) and H.H. Taklung Tsetrul Rinpoche, Tenzin Gyaltsen, head of the Taklung lineage, all recognized in their same supreme wisdom that he is the incarnation of Chokgyur Lingpa."

.


Yes, really. Of course I have no capacity to know these things but this is what I been told.

/magnus


But was he not really recognized by HH Karmapa, HH DKR, Tsetrul Rinpoche, etc. like the rigpa wiki says?.
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Re: Have you heard about Jatson Rinpoche ?

Postby heart » Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:13 am

Adamantine wrote:
heart wrote:
Adamantine wrote:
Really? I never heard of CJPR, but then Chokling is not my practice lineage.. Did a quick google and rigpa wiki says "Rinpoche’s supreme root teachers, H.H. 16th Gyalwa Karmapa Rangjung Rigpé Dorje, H.H. Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche (Vajradhara in person), H.H. the 2nd Adzom Drugpa Rinpoche/Thubten Pema Trinley (1921-2001) and H.H. Taklung Tsetrul Rinpoche, Tenzin Gyaltsen, head of the Taklung lineage, all recognized in their same supreme wisdom that he is the incarnation of Chokgyur Lingpa."

.


Yes, really. Of course I have no capacity to know these things but this is what I been told.

/magnus


But was he not really recognized by HH Karmapa, HH DKR, Tsetrul Rinpoche, etc. like the rigpa wiki says?.


No, he was a layperson, working in a bank in Switzerland, that did a retreat in Parping and came out of it sure of being a Chokling tulku I have been told. If you look at the history on the Rigpa wiki you will find these removed comments:

"lived for 23 years at Asura Cave. I was living there for the entire time that this man was doing his retreat there. Some of the statements which have been made in the article are absolutely false."

"Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche never came to visit this man at Asura Cave. Nor did he recognize him as an incarnate. This man is a charlatan and a fraud. Most of the things stated in the article are fabrications."

/magnus
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