heart wrote:Well I seen Namdrol express this idea before and I think it is a fanciful idea but unfortunately there is no scriptural support for this that I know about. I feel that the problem is that you then say that the Tögal displays are dependent on the mind and that don't make much sense.
Ahh, this never occured to me. However, how do you explain visions of things from ones life appearing? Or different people seeing different things?
And how does this then relate with what Brian said about purifying? Old prostitute's got to come from somewhere.
You're confusing the mind-based experiences of the bardo of becoming with the togal visions here, Pero. In the bardo of becoming, one forms a bardo body and sees things from one's life that was just left behind and lots of things connected with ordinary mental consciousness are experienced... But the togal displays are different and are instead related to the bardo of dharmata, during which the sambhogakaya deities manifest. Let's just say that from the relative POV, there are aspects of the body that are karmic in nature and there are some that are wisdom in nature, and the togal visions are the direct revelation of the sambhogakaya pure realm and deities through reliance on the the body's aspects that are of the nature of wisdom. I can't really say much more, but when you eventually receive detailed teachings on the principles involved and explanation of what you see at first, and how the visions each may develop, it'll make much more sense. In any case, as interesting as this stuff is, nearly all of it's only relevant for a togal practitioner (which neither you nor I happen to be at this stage). Suffice it to say, none of it is based on mind and some sort of beliefs, so there will never come a time when you have to accept or reject something that's difficult to swallow. You will eventually just practice according to the instructions and your two eyes will see what they see and at that point you will be unconfused about whether or not it's the natural state through having gained stability in your tregchod.
P.S. I don't know whether everyone sees the Shitro deities as sambhogakaya deities in the bardo or not... Maybe they don't necessarily because that bardo is too short and they lack sufficient purification of obscurations, or maybe neither of those things factor into that bardo and everyone does see the deities. But I do know that a togal practitioner diligently and correctly practicing over a period of years is obviously in a different situation than a bardo being.