Pero wrote:heart wrote:I am this weekend doing a teaching on the development stage with Tulku Dakpa Rinpoche. He makes the point that as all inner tantra development stage depends on the three samdhis the practitioner need not only to have understood all the yanas below but also have a taste of the natural state. You can read the same in Tulku Urgyens books. Somewhere Tulku Urgyens says something like "the development stage is not pretending it is to realize how things actually are".
I'm not sure how common this view is though, since TUR was a shengtongpa.If the development stage was just arising from the mind it would just be lies, the development stage have to arise from rigpa. This is a big subject actually.
TUR himself says that you can't achieve enlightenment through it alone, so it is a "lie".
In general the impression I got from reading his books is that TUR is teaching Dzogchen to Tantric practitioners. That's why he says things like the deity develops from the natural state. But you forget that not everyone of us has the capacity to understand the natural state. IMO you can practice deity transformation without understanding it. If it would not be so there wouldn't be three inner tantras, there'd be only one.
TUR was not a Shentong-pa, he was a Dzogchen-pa.
When TUR says you can't achieve enlightenment from development stage alone he is actually saying that you can't achieve enlightenment without wisdom, that you can't rely only on means. This is very clear if you read many of his teachings like I did. If you are capable of practicing inseparable development and completion stage you for sure can achieve enlightenment. So it is not a "lie".
Are you capable of experience everything in this world as inseparable purity and equality? No? Well that is the view of Mahayoga. It is not so far away from Atiyoga as you might think when reading a description of the nine yanas. Most Dzogchen cycles combine Maha, Anu and Ati in one way or an other. Not only that, I know cycles, like the Tukdrub Barche Kunsel, that are considered Mahayoga but still contains complete instruction for Maha, Anu and Ati. When I received the Lama Gondu, Taklung Tsetrul Rinpoche said that Lama Gondu was a perfect and complete practice since it contained teachings for the complete three inner Tantras.
The distinction between the three inner Tantras are mainly on the emphasis they put on development stage, completion stage with signs and completion stage without signs. In the Nyingma everyone will try to apply the view according to Ati-yoga but since it isn't easy to rest in the natural state they will apply whatever means that make this easier. It is a bit childish to think that just because you practice a Mahayoga sadhana you will try to apply the Mahayoga view if you allready recieved direct introduction to the natural state. This was also the way TUR taught. Believe me he did put a lot of emphasis on doing Ngondro and development stage while applying the view of Ati-yoga.