Twenty One Taras

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naljor
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Twenty One Taras

Post by naljor »

Hello,
is anybody familiar with Twenty One Taras from Chokgyur Lingpa terma?
Yeti
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Re: Twenty One Taras

Post by Yeti »

Yes, but I'm no expert on it. It's amazing as it's also used in other traditions. I'm sure heart/magnus will soon reply to this post, it's up his lineage alley.
"People are fond of saying all sorts of things about others behind their backs, mentioning their names again and again. Instead of slandering others in this way, “slander” the yidam: utter his name repeatedly by reciting his mantra all the time." - Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche - Zurchungpa’s Testament - Shambhala Publications
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conebeckham
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Re: Twenty One Taras

Post by conebeckham »

There are actually two 21 Tara practices, at least, in Chogling Tersar. Zabtik Drolma is the popular one, and it includes the ritual 4 Mandala offering sadhana which is quite popular. There's also a 21 Tara transmission which is uncommon, and is part of the Thukdrup Barchay Kunsel cycle.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
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heart
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Re: Twenty One Taras

Post by heart »

naljor wrote:Hello,
is anybody familiar with Twenty One Taras from Chokgyur Lingpa terma?
Yes, I am familiar with the outer sadhana of the Zabtik Drolma from Chokling Tersar, I guess this is the one you mean.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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heart
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Re: Twenty One Taras

Post by heart »

Yeti wrote:Yes, but I'm no expert on it. It's amazing as it's also used in other traditions. I'm sure heart/magnus will soon reply to this post, it's up his lineage alley.
:smile:
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
narraboth
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Re: Twenty One Taras

Post by narraboth »

conebeckham wrote:There are actually two 21 Tara practices, at least, in Chogling Tersar. Zabtik Drolma is the popular one, and it includes the ritual 4 Mandala offering sadhana which is quite popular. There's also a 21 Tara transmission which is uncommon, and is part of the Thukdrup Barchay Kunsel cycle.
I am not an expert of Chokling Drolma, but I did proof reading for the Chinese version of the Drolma Zabthig book; I also translated both Drolma Zabthig and Drolma Jigpa Kunsel from Tibetan into Chinese, I guess I know a little bit about this.

I think the one in Tukdrub Barchey Kunsel (Drolma Jigpa Kunsel) is the much more common one, in sense of picture or teaching avaliability (I believe this is the text KaNying Shedrubling uses everyday). It has been even published in 1920s in China.
The one in Drolma Zabthig is actually the inner cycle, which is, yes, 21, but not the one really people think of. The text did say '21 deities' but the way they count it was 1 main deity Tara + 8 special Tara + 8 offering female + 4 activity female at gates. In the outer cycle, the terma text didn't mention 21 taras, it was only in the commentary where 21 taras was mentioned for outer cycle. Basically the way people visualise 21 taras in drolma zabthig outer cycle is just qouting from Barchey Kunsel cycle. In fact, due to Drolma Zabthig root text being very brief, the refuge, bodhicitta and mandala lines in the commentary are all taken from Barchey Kunsel cycle.

Hope it clarifies.
naljor
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Re: Twenty One Taras

Post by naljor »

I mean practice with 21 different mantras for each Tara, it is certainly Thukdrub Barchay Kunsel, I have transmission, but don’t know how to incorporate those mantras in my practice .
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heart
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Re: Twenty One Taras

Post by heart »

naljor wrote:I mean practice with 21 different mantras for each Tara, it is certainly Thukdrub Barchay Kunsel, I have transmission, but don’t know how to incorporate those mantras in my practice .
I haven't got that transmission, the only Tara I have seen from the Tukdrub Barche Kunsel didn't have the 21 mantras. But in the Adzom Drukpa green tara practice (that Chogyal Namkhai Norbu teach) with 21 different mantras, these 21 mantras are activity mantras that should be recited when one has done a proper accumulation of the main mantra. Like the Mavey Senge practice if you are familiar with that.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
narraboth
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Re: Twenty One Taras

Post by narraboth »

heart wrote:
naljor wrote:I mean practice with 21 different mantras for each Tara, it is certainly Thukdrub Barchay Kunsel, I have transmission, but don’t know how to incorporate those mantras in my practice .
I haven't got that transmission, the only Tara I have seen from the Tukdrub Barche Kunsel didn't have the 21 mantras. But in the Adzom Drukpa green tara practice (that Chogyal Namkhai Norbu teach) with 21 different mantras, these 21 mantras are activity mantras that should be recited when one has done a proper accumulation of the main mantra. Like the Mavey Senge practice if you are familiar with that.

/magnus
The Drolma Jigpa Kunsel text has two parts, 1. Nyen (approaching) 2. Drub (accomplishing). The second part contains 21 mantras and specific description of each tara.
I can't say too much about the contents but it is a bit like Barchey Kunsel Lama Longku, you did your self generation with 1. and do front generation with 2. when you need it. Naljor you can msg me for details.
Last edited by narraboth on Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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conebeckham
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Re: Twenty One Taras

Post by conebeckham »

I don't know what sadhana is done in Nepal, at KaNying Shedrup Ling, or elsewhere, but I am sure that the Zabtik Drolchok sadhana is the Main "Tara Liturgy" practice,a daily or a weekly practice, at many Kagyu centers in the West. And maybe elsewhere. The Four Mandala Offering, which is that root sadhana--with appended bits added on. ie., seven limb prayer from Avatamsaka Sutra, etc.--is the "Outer Practice" of Zabtik Drolma. The 21 praises are repeated, 2, 3, and 7 times, etc. The Inner Practice of "Zabtik Drolma" is mainly on 8 Special Taras, if I recall, though there are other deities involved, as Narraboth mentioned, and the Secret practice concerns Tara and Hayagriva. Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche commented on this in his book on Tara, which title I can't recall at the moment.....

The Jigpa Kunsel empowerment has the transmission of the 21 different forms, different mantras, etc. I haven't looked at the related texts in some time, but I understand it's an "Activity" ritual related to the Barchay Kunsel cycle. Narraboth is right about the general iconography, descriptions, etc., of the 21 Taras coming from this transmission. The thangkas and images which are claimed to be "Chogling Tersar tradition 21 Taras" (I have one) are based on this cycle, and I think the Outer practice of Zabtik Drolchok borrows the descriptions, etc., for the visualization of the 21 from Jigpa Kunsel.

As for instructions and methods on how to use the 21 mantras, how to visualize the 21 Taras, etc., I think we will leave that to a qualified guru.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
narraboth
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Re: Twenty One Taras

Post by narraboth »

conebeckham wrote: As for instructions and methods on how to use the 21 mantras, how to visualize the 21 Taras, etc., I think we will leave that to a qualified guru.
Depends on what kind of 'transmission' Naljor received, if it's an empowerment or a full-length glung, I can tell him what the text says as a translator. He is qualified to know what the text says in that case as his guru already althorised it. Further instruction is another thing.
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conebeckham
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Re: Twenty One Taras

Post by conebeckham »

I agree, Narraboth.....and I didn't mean to imply that you were going to give him the "Tri" via PM. Apologies!
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
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heart
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Re: Twenty One Taras

Post by heart »

The Tara I know from Barche Kunsel is called "Tara that fulfills all wishes, not sure what the Tibetan name is". Seems to be a lot of Tara in the Chokling Tersar.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
naljor
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Re: Twenty One Taras

Post by naljor »

Thank you all, I received Tara empowerment from Chokgyur Lingpa with transmission of twenty different mantras of Tara manifestations, but honestly I do not remember the name, but it seems like sgrol ma ‘jigs pa kun sel,
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conebeckham
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Re: Twenty One Taras

Post by conebeckham »

naljor wrote:Thank you all, I received Tara empowerment from Chokgyur Lingpa with transmission of twenty different mantras of Tara manifestations, but honestly I do not remember the name, but it seems like sgrol ma ‘jigs pa kun sel,
I think it is. I received this from Khenchen Lodro Donyo Rinpoche. I've also received the Zabtik Drolma wang several times, and they are definitely different empowerments.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
naljor
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Re: Twenty One Taras

Post by naljor »

Yes, I received also Zabtik Drolma and it was different
narraboth
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Re: Twenty One Taras

Post by narraboth »

conebeckham wrote:I agree, Narraboth.....and I didn't mean to imply that you were going to give him the "Tri" via PM. Apologies!
Oh it's OK, just wanted to clarify to him.
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