Question on Guru Rinpoche initiation

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Question on Guru Rinpoche initiation

Postby emptydreams » Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:17 pm

Hey guys,

last month I took a Guru Rinpoche initiation. After it ended the commitments were given, which was to do Guru Rinpoche mantra daily, to attend tsog and to do konchok chidu (frequency was not mentioned, but text says daily, however the center seems to only use that text during Guru Rinpoche's Tsog, so I assume that it was to be done during Tsog.)but the translator was not clear at all and the crowd didnt seem serious in receiving the initiation as well. However during the end it was also mentioned that everyone present now has permission to visualize the wind channels.

Today was Guru Rinpoche day, so I went to a different center that was Drukpa Kagyu for the Tsog because the original center was too far away from where I stayed (the initiation i took from was Karma Kagyu) and they used the Yangtik text instead. Both text are basically the same except for some very minor differences, is it okay? Does it count as fulfilling my commitment? Is it okay or acceptable to substitute practices like these?

I hope I havent broke my commitment. But I do Guru Rinpoche's mantra daily.
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Re: Question on Guru Rinpoche initiation

Postby pemachophel » Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:16 pm

Jamkar,

Since I was not present to hear the samaya commitments given at the wang, I don't know for sure what those commitments were, but I seriously doubt you have broken your samaya. You went to tshog with the intention of fulfilling your samaya. So that should be just fine.

Try to get lung sometime for Jigme Ling's short tshog prayer. Then, when you can't get to a center on the 10th, you can turn any meal into a tshog and easily fulfill your commitment. This lung should be easy to get if there're any Nyingma around. It does not have to be from a Lama. It can be from another practitioner just as long as they received lung.

Good luck and best wishes and keep saying the Vajra Guru mantra every day. That's wonderful!

:namaste:
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ
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Re: Question on Guru Rinpoche initiation

Postby Konchog1 » Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:41 pm

pemachophel wrote:Good luck and best wishes and keep saying the Vajra Guru mantra every day. That's wonderful!
http://www.rinpoche.com/gurumantra.html
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
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Re: Question on Guru Rinpoche initiation

Postby emptydreams » Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:22 am

Thanks so much for the clarifications. I have a few more questions though:

1) Is Guru Rinpoche's initiation considered HYT or pre HYT? I know that most lower tantras do not require tsog. But Guru Rinpoche's does.
2) the Lama who gave the initiation mentioned that we now have permission to visualize the wind channels. Does this mean that it was HYT?

All these is kinda new to me in a way but I intend of keeping my samaya spotless and hopefully gain results.
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Re: Question on Guru Rinpoche initiation

Postby ngodrup » Mon Jun 09, 2014 4:17 am

Nyingmapas don't usually categorize with the term HYT.
We prefer to use the terms Mahayoga, Anuyoga and Dzogchen.
The 'requirements' are not presented the same way either.
In any case it is equivalent to HYT. In short yes, it's HYT.

Guru Rinpoche recommended praying to him on the 10th and
25th lunar days. Therefore we do tsog on those days, but are
not limited. In fact it is not unusual for Nyingmapas to offer
tsog daily. Within the tsog, which is also a powerful means
of accumulating merit, there is a general confession, so doing
tsog at least 2x a month maintains your samaya. It is said that
if you have both devotion and samaya, accomplishment is assured.
You do not have to worry about the day if you do tsog often-- and
especially more than 2x a month. In addition It is recommended
to maintain a daily practice of Vajrasattva. If you also do a sang,
such as Riwo Sang Cho frequently, if not daily, that is excellent.
All these will also remove obstacles. Do as much as you can.
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Re: Question on Guru Rinpoche initiation

Postby emptydreams » Mon Jun 09, 2014 4:41 am

ngodrup wrote:Nyingmapas don't usually categorize with the term HYT.
We prefer to use the terms Mahayoga, Anuyoga and Dzogchen.
The 'requirements' are not presented the same way either.
In any case it is equivalent to HYT. In short yes, it's HYT.

Guru Rinpoche recommended praying to him on the 10th and
25th lunar days. Therefore we do tsog on those days, but are
not limited. In fact it is not unusual for Nyingmapas to offer
tsog daily. Within the tsog, which is also a powerful means
of accumulating merit, there is a general confession, so doing
tsog at least 2x a month maintains your samaya. It is said that
if you have both devotion and samaya, accomplishment is assured.
You do not have to worry about the day if you do tsog often-- and
especially more than 2x a month. In addition It is recommended
to maintain a daily practice of Vajrasattva. If you also do a sang,
such as Riwo Sang Cho frequently, if not daily, that is excellent.
All these will also remove obstacles. Do as much as you can.


Thank you :) as I am kinda new to Nyingma/kagyu. I have read a lot but it seems that im pretty much clueless about many things. In my ex tradition i was told that breaking commitments on HYT would result in dire consequences and vajra hell etc. If i skip tsog for example in the case of Guru Rinpoche will there be 'penalities?' Would 'practice' here mean reciting the text, or just contemplating on it on a regular basis and try to let my mind meld with it?

In any case, the lung for the tsog text is really a good tip and very useful. Will try to aquire that hehe.
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Re: Question on Guru Rinpoche initiation

Postby ngodrup » Mon Jun 09, 2014 4:58 am

You do what you can, as much as you can.
If for some reason the 10th day is impossible-- maybe
you're traveling or sick, maybe your job requires you
to work 20 hours that day. there's always the 9th or the
11th or both! ;)

The Dharma doesn't punish, it only benefits. Therefore
we always try to do more than the minimum. So if life
interferes, then you can have equanimity about that.
If you break your promise, then you apologize and
make up for it as fast as you can. It is assumed that
you won't be perfect, that's why we practice! You don't
try to break the rule, you are just realistic. If you can
do a drupchen, that is amazing, because the group
will be offering tsog 2x a day as well as all four fire
pujas-- in one week's time! Get it?
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Re: Question on Guru Rinpoche initiation

Postby tingdzin » Mon Jun 09, 2014 4:15 pm

Ngodup's advice is excellent. It is very easy to break Vajrayana commitments, and the effects are indeed very serious, but it is also easy to repair your commitments if you do even a little Vajrasattva mantra every day with a genuine heart of regret.
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Re: Question on Guru Rinpoche initiation

Postby narraboth » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:46 am

Jamkar wrote:Hey guys,
last month I took a Guru Rinpoche initiation. After it ended the commitments were given, which was to do Guru Rinpoche mantra daily, to attend tsog and to do konchok chidu (frequency was not mentioned, but text says daily, however the center seems to only use that text during Guru Rinpoche's Tsog, so I assume that it was to be done during Tsog.).....


Hi,
I think you are fine.
1. you need to do Vajra Guru mantra everyday. And you do.
2. You should attend tsog every month, and you do. Even you can't, actually you can do it at home or on the plane or train etc (not as good as be with others, but it happens)
3. You should do Konchok Chidu, no specific time indicated. So it means you need to do Konchok Chidu SOMETIMES. I think once a year even can be fine. Just don't totally forget it.
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